French fighter scores, mainly 1939-1940

[rof120]

Sorry gentlemen, I was horribly busy in the last few days – there was a lot of stuff which couldn’t be posponed (no I’m not speaking of any dames). Some of you asked some interesting questions or made some interesting remarks.

For once I’ll answer the last reaction (by Laurent Rizzotti, today at 00.48 o’clock) first because it’ll probably be simpler and quicker. Attackers and normal posters don’t worry or wail, I’ll come back to you. I am still VERY short of time, I’m doing my best in spite of poor health at the moment (such things will happen). For the moment I can only confirm that what I have written here starting on October 2 is correct ”mutatis mutandis”, with possible necessary adjustments and corrections: I am not infallible but 40 years of research and above all of OWN THINKING (a rare commodity) give me a little knowledge of this subject – more than to many a quick-tempered patriot could think.

I’d like to remind you that my first words when opening this thread on October 2nd (16 days ago) were:

”The scores of French fighter pilots (not the aces only) are a difficult field of research."

I forgot to add « very complex », which is a pity. Some reactions clearly show that a few persons don’t understand or refuse to because the truth doesn’t satisfy their natonal pride nor match what they have been believing for all their life since they were very young boys wearing shorts, which they possibly still do. They refuse to accept anything « new » (new to them) and prefer to insult anybody who dares question their cherished beliefs. More on this, with hard evidence, some other time.

Alledgedly only the German and British air forces of 1940 and their aircrew deserve respect and admiration, the French being totally unimportant, very weak with poor aircraft, why not cowards refusing to fight, and don’t even deserve being mentioned (see for example, among many others, the book « Twelve Days in May », by Brian Cull – I have got my copy on my desk right now so I can make a few interesting quotations (later). I am a « moron » etc. I’m certainly very dumb for I don’t see what justifies calling me names.
Well, now let’s get back to the subject, which will be a relief.

Laurent : « Do you have cases where a French pilot not having fired was credited with a victory ? »

- Not at the moment but I think there were quite a few, possibly dozens or even hundreds of instances. Possibly to be found in both special issues of « avions » with the title « Les as français (de?) 1939-1940 ». They give many details. This is why I heroically searched my boxes still containing a lot of WW II-books etc., but without finding these two issues. Stand by, I’ll find them some time, I promise (I’m a very brave man fighting amongst all those boxes). All collective victories are given with the number and names of all pilots involved but I can’t remember whether the main description of the aces’ victories contains the piece of information you mentioned. Certainly other TOCH-members own copies of avions’ « The French aces » and can tell you. I’ll unearth mine some day, I promise too (soon I hope).

But let me give you an interesting example. IIRC (if I recall correctly) I read this story in colonel Camille Plubeau’s very interesting small book « Diables rouges, petits poucets » - the insignia of both escadrilles of his unit, GC II/4 (30 Curtiss H-75 fighters), which contains his memories from 1939-40 with numerous air battles etc. Plubeau, then an adjudant-chef and a sous-lieutenant, was officially French ace N° 2 with 14 « certain » victories although he was wounded on June 9, I think while shooting down one more Me 109 (his 6th s/d alone) and wasn’t able to score any more. Now the story (Plubeau or not) :

A French fighter formation from GC II/4 – probably 9 Curtisses but possibly only 3 or 6 - flew to the battle area (not on the reverse course…) looking for trouble. They were jumped by some Me 109s but didn’t notice. After landing one of the excellent Czech pilots named Vrana (with reservations – IIRC) was missing and Plubeau, or some other pilot, was irritated because he was late. After a while Vrana landed and related what had happened : « Moi blessé jambe… » (Me wounded leg).

To make it short, being the only pilot who noticed the German attack, he counter-attacked the 109s and there was a rather dangerous fight, Vrana alone against at least four 109s, possibly twelve or more. He managed to escape eventually but his fighter had probably received some bullets too. All alone he had prevented a deadly enemy attack which probably would have cost his comrades several casualties, possibly 1-3 pilots killed.

IIRC he didn’t win any victory this time but he had really protected the other pilots. I feel this is just as good as 1-2 actual victories (none was awarded to him this time) and his situation was very similar to the situation of pilots flying top cover while the other members of the formation were dealing with German bombers or even fighters being the preys of a French surprise attack (this happened quite a few times – and conversely).

In the case of top cover those pilots earned some form of praise too because they had been protecting their comrades’ tails and lives while they (often) were winning several victories. In my modest opinion they deserved to be credited with one victory even if they never had opened fire (and, needless to say, all of them were very keen to fire at enemy aircraft, the hated « avions boches » (Hun aircraft, or Nazi AC, as they said in England). If they sometimes didn’t have any opportunity to fire obviously this happened much to their chagrin. In the Battle of Britain too very often some pilots flew top cover. No victories were credited to them if they hadn't actually won them but they probably received some medals if they had earned them, which often was the case.

To be continued

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Quote Laurent. "Do you have cases where a French pilot not having fired was credited with a victory. From my readings, victories were given after analysis of the combat reports and given individually to each pilot. But the total number of enemy aircraft claimed was inferior to the sum of individual claims, each aircraft being only counted once, so overclaiming was not increased by this system. Still overclaiming existed in French Air Force too, of course.

Sharing victories between all pilots of a formation, whatever happened in the battle, was something done in Japanese and Italian airforces at least in a part of the war.

IMHO there is no good system or fair system. Shooting down a B-17 with a Bf 109 was probably far more difficult that shooting down a Bf 109 with a Mustang, but still it is one victory in both case."