Using Ultra to research the Luftwaffe

[Larry deZeng]

Thanks Rod and Nick. Your comments confirm my take on the comparison of DEFE 3 with the HW 5 material. The usefulness of the latter depends largely on one's interests and objectives and for those pursuing individual aircraft Werknummern, deliveries to the front, crashes, requests for parts and the like it is a very valuable resource. Also for those working on some particular time frame, front or geographical area where they can afford to carry out their research until the last stone is turned. HW 5 is interesting to read through, too, since it provides an unfiltered insight into the more mundane aspects of the air war from the Luftwaffe's end of it. But most importantly from the viewpoint of a historian, ULTRA fills in many of the numerous gaps that were created by Göring's vengeful order to destroy the remaining Luftwaffe records which was carried out the first five days of May 1945 by Oberst Mittmann, Kdr. Teilkommando Süd/8. Abteilung Genst.d.Lw.

[RodM]

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

ULTRA fills in many of the numerous gaps that were created by Göring's vengeful order to destroy the remaining Luftwaffe records which was carried out the first five days of May 1945 by Oberst Mittmann, Kdr. Teilkommando Süd/8. Abteilung Genst.d.Lw.

Hi Larry, I think that it is purely in relation to the destruction of the preponderance of Luftwaffe records that makes ULTRA seem like a 'holy grail'. While it does fill in many gaps, it obviously has severe limitations when one starts to look for either an all-encompassing view of a particular campaign or command, or for details of very specific actions. Then it becomes pot-luck whether there is much of use. I find that ULTRA is most rewarding when it is combined with information from other surviving documentary sources. Also, to put it bluntly, one must shift through a lot of crap to find the odd nugget, if researching a specific area of interest.

Although I expect that the years 1943-44 are probably more fruitful in terms of decrypts in my area of interest, for the 1945 period most of the unit-level Nachtjagd decrypts relate to NJG4 (predominantly I. and III. Gruppe), with a small number of decrypts from other Gruppen, so that out of NJGs 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 etc, there is little information (other than the odd strength return or loss report) on the majority of the Nachtjagdgeschwader. I also find it amusing that a run of decrypts for some units occur when they are having little operational success (like not flying on operations or not meeting the enemy), but abruptly end, sometimes on the very day, when they see major combat!

Cheers

Rod

[Larry deZeng]

I also find it amusing that a run of decrypts for some units occur when they are having little operational success (like not flying on operations or not meeting the enemy), but abruptly end, sometimes on the very day, when they see major combat!

Now that's spooky, Rod! The common thread that I usually found was ULTRA's silence when the front was quiet in an established area. As soon as the front in that area was disrupted by heavy Allied bombing or by a ground offensive, ULTRA would come alive due to the interruption or destruction of landline connections that forced units to fall back on their radios. ULTRA was always at its best during theater-scale offensives and retreats and in areas without landline infrastructure.

Re your Nachtjagd conundrum, part of the explanation lies with the comprehensive establishment of RV (Richtverbindungs-; not recreation vehicle ) networks throughout Germany by summer 1944. This gave the Germans a fallback communications system so they didn't have to resort to their radios. For example, just in the Frankfurt-Darmstadt area in October 1944 there were RV-Stellen at Erbenkopf, Feldberg, Montabauer, Hohe Wurzel, Bierstadt, Darmstadt, Limburg and Dulag Oberursel. These were operated by 3- and 4-man crews from Ln.-RV-Abt. z.b.V. 11 (mot). Perhaps those two Gruppen from NJG 4 were in an area not yet covered by the RV net or maybe they did not have the equipment yet to plug into it.

You are doing some great analysis there, Rod, keep it up! Your comments have been very interesting.

Larry

[RodM]

Hi Larry,

thanks for the additional analysis.

The RV network is the most logical explanation for the dispartity in intercepted material. What is less clear is how much Enigma wireless traffic was either missed entirely or not successfully decrypted.

I should qualify my statement, which you quoted - it only applies to my experience with Nachtjagd or Nachtjagd-related material by higher headquarters in 1945. One example that strings to mind are air situation reports issued by Jafue Mittelrhein in March 1945 - there were a string of them between successful actions on 5-6 March 1945 and 16-17 March 1945, but not one covering the two nights mentioned.

Even the previously volumous NJG4 ULTRA material dried up from mid-April 1945 when Luftwaffe units began retreating into northern Germany and, presumably, used the RV network.

Cheers

Rod

The following gives an idea of (mostly) Gruppe-level operational reports by NJGs during 1945 that are contained in HW 5:

I./NJG4 ops 1-2 Jan 45 (Nachtschlacht)
2./NJG6 (Lt Artus) ops report 1-2 Jan 45
III./NJG4 ops 2-3 Jan 45 (NO OPS)
I./NJG4 ops 3-4 Jan 45 (NO OPS)
I./NJG4 ops 5-6 Jan 45 (No ops)
I./NJG4 ops 5-6 Jan 45 (No ops)
III./NJG4 ops 8-9 Jan 45 (NO OPS)
I./NJG4 ops 8-9 Jan 45 (NO OPS)
III./NJG4 ops 10-11 Jan 45
I./NJG4 return showing landings on 10-11 Jan 45, with pilot names
III./NJG4 ops 12-13 Jan 45 (No ops)
III./NJG4 ops report 14-15 Jan 45
III./NJG4 ops report 3-4 Feb 45
I./NJG4 ops report 1-2 Feb 45
3 JD observations made by III./NJG4 and I./NJG 2 ops 10-11 Feb 45
III./NJG4 ops report 2-3 Feb 45
III./NJG4 ops report 14-15 Feb 45
II./NJG1 comment on ops 20-21 Feb 45
I/.NJG4 battle report 16-17 Feb 45 (NO OPS)
III./NJG4 ops report for night 21-22 Feb 45
III./NJG4 battle report 20-21 Feb 45 (NO OPS)
I./NJG4 ops report 21-22 Feb 45
III/.NJG4 battle report 23-24 Feb 45 (NO OPS)
I./NJG4 battle report 25-26 Feb 45 (NO OPS)
III/.NJG4 battle report 25-26 Feb 45 (NO OPS)
I./NJG4 ops reports 1-2 Mar 45 & 2-3 Mar 45 (NO OPS)
I./NJG4 ops report 27-28 Feb 45
III./NJG4 ops report 3-4 Mar 45 (excl Gisela)
II./NJG101 ops report 14-15 Feb 45 (note - also reports no ops between 2/2-13/2)
I./NJG4 ops reports 3-4 Mar 45 (DOR & Gisela) & 4-5 Mar 45 (Adelheid)
III./NJG4 ops report 4-5 Mar 45 (Adelheid)
III./NJG4 ops report 7-8 Mar 45
III./NJG4 ops report 5-6 Mar 45
I./NJG4 ops report 27-28 Feb 45
I./NJG4 ops report 12-13 Mar 45 (NO OPS)
I./NJG4 ops report 10-11 Mar 45
?./NJG4 ops 14-15 Mar 45 (NO OPS – Gruppe unknown)
I./NJG4 ops report 5-6 Mar 45
?./NJG4 ops 14-15 Mar 45 (NO OPS – Gruppe unknown)
I./NJG4 ops report 13-14 Mar 45 (NO OPS)
I./NJG4 ops report 15-16 Mar 45
II./NJG101 ops report 16-17 Mar 45
I./NJG4 ops report 16-17 Mar 45
III./NJG3 ops 7-8 Mar 45 (note - about instructions passed via W/T)
III./NJG2 combat report 17-18 Mar 45 (Adelheid)
II./NJG101 ops report 16-17 Mar 45
I./NJG4 ops 7-8 Mar 45
I./NJG4 ops report 18-19 Mar 45
I./NJG4 experiences report 18-19 Mar 45
I./NJG4 ops report 15-16 Mar 45
2 JD data, then I./NJG4 ops report 21-22 Mar 45
III./NJG2 combat report 17-18 Mar 45 (Adelheid)
I./NJG4 ops 21-22 Mar 45
I./NJG4 ops 20-21 Mar 45
III./NJG4 ops 22-23 Mar 45
I./NJG4 ops 18-19 Mar 45
I./NJG4 ops 19-20 Mar 45
I./NJG4 report on attack on Vechta 24 Mar 45
III./NJG4 ops report 24-25 Mar 45
I./NJG4 ops 26-27 Mar 45
I./NJG4 Nachtschlacht 24-25 Mar 45
NJG6 Nachtschlacht 25-26 Mar 45
I./NJG4 ops report 20-21 Mar 45
III./NJG4 ops 21-22 Mar 45
I./NJG4 ops 27-28 Mar 45 (NO OPS)
Fliegerkorps IX (J) mentioning 7./NJG11 successes on 7-8 Apr 45
NJG1 ops 19-20 Apr 45
I./NJG 1 ops report 19-20 Apr 45
4./NJG 2 ops report for 29-30 Apr 45

[Larry deZeng]

Rod - Have you had an opportunity yet to work with any of the 47 periodic wartime reports issued by Air Ministry/A.I. 4 Signals Intelligence? By these I mean those that carried the catchy titles "Canterbury", "Pearl/ZIP", "Pearl/ZIP/BMP", "CIRO", "Beta Krass", "Gamma Krass", "BATS", "OWL/ROBOT", "Orchestra", etc., etc. Nearly half of the 47 are devoted to Luftwaffe night fighter operations and might aid your analysis since the signals intelligence used came from other than Enigma/ULTRA. I do not know exactly what you are working on, so this is just a thought. From my recollection of the handful of these I saw, they plot and report each and every Lw. night fighter that took off and landed and what they were doing while aloft. Very comprehensive from late 1943 to the end of the war.

Larry

[RodM]

Hi Larry,

rather than get off-topic in this thread, I've started a new thread, which I hope will stimulate discussion on non-ULTRA Y material on the Luftwaffe:

http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/showth...416#post101416

Cheers

Rod

[Larry deZeng]

I wish you luck, Rod. Unfortunately, this web site has over the years become little more than losses and claims as you can see from the postings. Most of the more serious minded researchers and historians gave up years ago and are long gone. How I wish that weren't so. I have a working hypothesis as to "why", but I will keep it to myself. I hope I am wrong and your thread generates a healthy interest and response.

Larry

[AndreasB]

Hi

Does someone know the file numbers for the tabulated losses of the GAF, produced by the RAF after the war, and broken down by month and theatre?

Many thanks in advance.

All the best

Andreas

[RodM]

Originally Posted by AndreasB

Hi

Does someone know the file numbers for the tabulated losses of the GAF, produced by the RAF after the war, and broken down by month and theatre?

Many thanks in advance.

All the best

Andreas

Hi Andreas,

I presume that you are meaning:

AIR 20/7709 Translations from Captured Enemy Documents : Vol. X 1942 – 1944

Luftwaffe Losses – Western Front (LF 3) May 44 VII/133
Luftwaffe Losses – Area of Luftflotte Reich May 44 VII/134
Luftwaffe Losses – Western Front Jan.-Apr. 44 VII/135
Luftwaffe Losses – Western Front Jun. 44 VII/136
Luftwaffe Losses – Area of Luftflotte Reich Jan.-Apr. 44 VII/138
Luftwaffe Losses – Area of Luftflotte Reich Jun. 44 VII/139

AIR 20/7710 Translations from Captured Enemy Documents : Vol. XI 1955 – 1956

Luftwaffe Losses – Western Front (Luftflotte 3) Sep.-Nov. 44 VII/145
Luftwaffe Losses – Norway (Luftflotte 5 West) Jul.-Nov. 44 VII/146
Luftwaffe Losses – Mediterranean (Luftflotte 2 and Lw Kommando Süd Ost) Jul.-Nov. 44 VII/147
Luftwaffe Losses – Western Front (Luftflotte 3) Sep.-Dec. 43 VII/148
Luftwaffe Losses – Luftflotte Reich Area Sep.-Dec. 43 VII/149
Luftwaffe Losses – Mediterranean Sep.-Dec. 43 VII/150
Luftwaffe Losses – Western Norway (Luftflotte 5 West) Sep.-Dec. 43 VII/151

Luftwaffe Losses – Eastern Front Sep.-Dec. 43 VII/152

AIR 20/7711 Translations from Captured Enemy Documents : Vol. XII 1956 – 1957
Luftwaffe Losses – Defence of the Reich Jun.-Aug. 43 VII/157

Cheers

Rod

[RodM]

This is a question primarily for Nick, or anyone else who has been working with the HW 5 files:

have you managed to have a look at HW 5/718 Unreported Documents 6/4/44 to 2/5/45.

For anyone that has tried to marry up the DEFE 3 signals to Allied Commands and the originating HW 5 signals for the 1944-45 period, it becomes obvious that the 'standard' bound HW 5 volumes do not contain all of the intercepted signals used as the basis of the signals to Allied Commands. In a small percentage of DEFE 3 signals and some of the T. reports, the originating information is given as 'unreported documents' and it is clear that this was a source of signals, some reasonably significant. that are not to be found in the standard volumes.

I suspect that these 'missing' signals can be found in HW 5/718, and are wondering if anyone has actually had a look at the file...

Cheers

Rod