Battle of Britain & France - Battle Pilots

[Martin Gleeson]

Hallo Iain,

I did a similar exercise a few months ago, purely for my own interest. I have some extra names and will post them tomorrow hopefully. I am heading out the door to work right now.

Regards,

Martin.

[Martin Gleeson]

Hallo Iain,

A few months ago I was keen to learn how many and which Battle pilots went to Fighter Command in the summer of 1940. My main sources were Kenneth Wynn's 'Men of the Battle of Britain' (1989) and the Supplementary Volume (1993), plus some other works. Unfortunately I do not have the 2000 edition but am really looking forward to the new version this year.

The eight extra I have below are probably best decribed now as having 'served in France during the Phoney War and the May-June Campaign'. I was a little too quick off the mark, now realizing you meant those pilots who had flown at least operational sortie. Also two apparently flew only with 98 Squadron which would not qualify them for your list. One more flew with 98 Sqn. and then moved to 226 Squadron.

L.C. Allton 98 / 92
H.E. Black 226 / 32-257-46
R.J.E. Boulding 142 / 74
R.W. Clarke 226 / 79-238
D. Haywood 88 / 151-504
J.C. Martin 98 & 226 / 257
J.A. Patterson 226 / 92
D.M.A. Smythe 98 / 264

Of these I can only be sure of Haywood flying operationally during the French Campaign. He was shot down by fighters on 13 June 1940 (ref. 'TBoF,T&N' by Peter Cornwell).

On your list Adair and Snell are new to me, and very welcome. Other Battle pilots (at least five) who joined after their units returned from France also went to Fighter Command. Unfortunately at present I have access to only one Battle squadron (142) ORB for the period. Boulding does not appear to have flown operationally during the campaign.

Hope others can add to the list or expand on this thread.

Regards,

Martin Gleeson.

[Iain Torrance]

Martin

Thanks very much for your list, by my count we now get the total up to thirty-one volunteers from Fairey Battle Squadrons who received BoB Bar (25 my list plus your extra 8 then less 2 double-counts)

Double counts are Boulding and Martin.

I have done checks on the others you mention but note Allton and Smythe were only at 98 Sq (the reserve squadron)

- Agree no record of Boulding flying operationally with 142 Squ from ORB.
- Can’t find anything in the ORBs for Black, Paterson or Clarke
- Agree Haywood for 88 Squ - ORB confirms for 13 June and he also crashed on take-off on 27 May
- For Martin there is a record of a Sgt Martin flying operationally as a pilot in the 226 ORB, earliest ref 13 May, but that’s an obvious red herring as J.C. Martin was a PO.

Of course doesn’t mean they all never flew operationally in France, just that there’s a need to find evidence. Be grateful if others can help on that.

Interesting point is that the criteria to be accepted as a volunteer for fighter command obviously did not include having operational experience !

Kind regards

Iain

[Martin Gleeson]

Hallo Iain,

Thanks for your comments. I believe - from the information available at present - that at least 7 Battle pilots qualified for the BoB clasp who joined their (Battle) squadrons after these units returned from France.

C.E. Langdon 142 / 43
A.G. McIntyre 12 OTU / 111
D.C. MacKenzie 142 / 56
A.H. Milnes 12 / 32
T.P. Pugh 103 / 263
G.A. Stroud 150 / 504-32-249
R.W.M. Walsh (FAA) 142 / 111

McIntyre, a New Zealander, appears to have gone directly from 12 OTU to Fighter Command. Still technically a Battle unit, but definitely a Battle pilot. He does prove your last point however !

Pugh's case is not clear however. He appears to have joined 103 Squadron after his training was complete, which should be sometime in 1938 or 1939. There is no further mention until the comment that he was with 263 Squadron by early July 1940. All this detail comes from 'Men of ther Battle of Britain' (1st edition, 1989). This also notes that he claimed at least 2 aerial victories (DFC citation) but he has no entry in 'Those Other Eagles'. There is no entry for him in Kenneth Wynn's 'Supplementary Volume' (1993). Maybe some one with his 2000 edition can reveal further information ?
So Pugh could have seen service with 103 Squadron during The Phoney War and even during the May/June Campaign ?

Hope this helps,

Martin.

[gedburke3]

Hi,
Hope this helps.

PUGH, T. P. F/O - P/O - On 103 Sqdn, 18 September 1939; joined 263 Sqdn from 1 RAF Depot, 1 July 1940; promoted F/Lt, 16 September 1940; OC 'B' Flt (Hurricanes), September 1940; still on 263 Sqdn, November 1940.
PUGH, Thomas Patrick
Royal Air Force
Pilot
Flying Officer [12. 2.40]
40137
1181 RAF Depot
----------
-
1. 7.40
263 (F) Squadron RAF
1. 7.40
-
----------
OC ‘B’ Flight
30. 8.40
-
----------
Acting Flight Lieutenant
16. 9.40
British – RAF pupil pilot, 12 July 1937; granted a short service commission for four years in the General Duties Branch of the RAF as Acting Pilot Officer on probation, 5 September 1937; confirmed in appointment and graded as Pilot Officer, 12 July 1938



McINTYRE, P/O - Joined 111 Sqdn, 29 July 1940; detached from 111 Sqdn to Kenley for short instructional course, 30 July 1940; on 111 Sqdn, 1 November 1940
McINTYRE, Athol Gordon
Royal Air Force
Pilot
Pilot Officer [9. 4.40]
36257
12 Operational Training Unit RAF
----------
-
15. 7.40
under training
7 Operational Training Unit RAF
15. 7.40
-
29. 7.40
under training
111 (F) Squadron RAF
29. 7.40
-
15. 8.40
Attached
Kenley Sector Training Flight
30. 7.40
-
6. 8.40
conversion course
½ Do 215 Destroyed (confirmed)
13. 8.40
Wounded in action
15. 8.40
RAF Kenley/supernumerary
15. 8.40
-
24.10.40
Non-effective, sick
111 (F) Squadron RAF
24.10.40
-
----------
New Zealander - Granted a short service commission for four years in the General Duties Branch? of the RNZAF as Acting Pilot Officer on probation?, 12 September 1939; relinquished commission in the RNZAF and granted a short service commission for five years in the General Duties Branch of the RAF as Pilot Officer, 9 April 1940; arrived in the UK, 13 April 1940

[Iain Torrance]

Gedburke 3

Thanks for the post on Pugh – had overlooked the 103 Squ connection.

I checked the 14 April 40 photo of 103 Squ Officers at Betheniville (ref IWM C 1498) and this photo includes Pugh. No reord of him flying operationally in the 103 Squ ORB (written on return to UK) and I’ve checked with David Fell at 103 Assocn. - he has nothing further.

Odds must be he did fly operationally in Battle of France, but can’t prove it !

Kind regards

Iain