IJsselmeer Messerschmitts 109

[vinnie]

Hi to all,

I'm Vinnie, I'm 20 years old and I live in the Netherlands.
Lately I have been investigating some WWII crashes in the biggest lake in Holland, the IJsselmeer.
I would like to find out more about the following planes:

-Messerschmitt Bf-109 E-1 ('black 14' or '1+-')belonging to Oberleutnant Hubertus von Holtey from 5./JG 26. It crashed on 11.5.1940, but did it crash in the water of the IJsselmeer or did it crash on the ground, below the lake (the area of De Klomp, in the vicinity of Weesp)?

-Messerschmitt Bf-109 G-6, flown by Uffz. E. Thiele from 8./JG 1. Werk Nummer 19848. It crashed on the 19th or 20th of August 1943 in the IJsselmeer. Can anybody tell me if the pilot survived the crash?

-Messerschmitt Bf-109 G-6, Werk Nr. 20531. Pilot was Uffz. G. Frey, and he and his plane were part of 9./JG 1. The aircraft crashed in the IJsselmeer on september 22 1943. Is there any information about the pilot?

-Last but not least: in August 1960 several aircraft were salvaged by the Royal Dutch Airforce. This lot included an Me-109, though I wasn't able to find out more about this specific machine. Does anyone know what they found, what the Werk Nr. was, etc.?

Thank you for your time!

Regards,

Vinnie

[John Manrho]

Uffz. Ewald Thiele, 8./JG 1, 20.08.1943, vermisst (never recovered imho)
IJsselmeer, EL-3

Uffz. Gustav Frey, 9./JG 1, 22.09.1943, verwundet (wounded)
IJsselmeer, FL2/5
(vermisst 3.11.1943 LK Viermots Raum Emden).

JM

[vinnie]

Originally Posted by John Manrho

Uffz. Ewald Thiele, 8./JG 1, 20.08.1943, vermisst (never recovered imho)
IJsselmeer, EL-3

Uffz. Gustav Frey, 9./JG 1, 22.09.1943, verwundet (wounded)
IJsselmeer, FL2/5
(vermisst 3.11.1943 LK Viermots Raum Emden).

JM

Thank you very much for your help, John!
I'm quite new to researching these crashes, but are 'EL-3' and 'FL2/5' the locations where the planes crashed?

[John Manrho]

Yes, they indicate rough positions in the IJsselmeer. You will need a Luftwaffe map with grids. You can find more here;

http://www.gyges.dk/reporting_grids.htm

Cheers,

John

[vinnie]

Thank you, John! Very useful information, I already tracked them down as far as possible with the map in the link.

Maybe you also know the locations of Me-109 G-6 Werk Nummer 410874 (flown by Erich Mattern), the Me-109 of Fritz Haspel (Werk Nr unknown) and Me-109 G-6 Werk Nr. 410141 (flown by Helmut Sainisch)? All ditched in the IJsselmeer on 21.2.1944.

And if anyone could tell me something about the Me-109 E1 of H. Von Holtey, let me know!

Thanks!

[John Manrho]

No locations. Lt. Erich Mattern baled out over the IJsselmeer and was recovered on 28.4.1944 east of Elburg and buried in Amsterdam, Grave 482. On 29.10.1947 reburied at Ysselsteyn Grave CT-VII-173.

John

[Matti Salonen]

Sainisch am 1944-02-22 tot angeschwemmt. Ysselsteyn/Niederlande, Block CT, Reihe 9, Grab 221.

Matti

[vinnie]

Thanks for the information!

It also seems that the Me-109 G-6 of M. Spörk got mixed up with the Me-109 from F. Kostenbader. That means that there are 7 Messerschmitts in the lake (based on the lists I found). One of them was recovered when they 'made' the polders Flevoland and Noord-oostpolder.

Does anyone know something about the crash site of the Messerschmitt Bf-109 E1 of Hubertus von Holtey?