Bf 109 F-2 WNr.9719 pedigree

[ClinA-78]

Hello,

I would like to know more about Bf 109 F-2 WNr. 9719 and its pilot; beside it was lost on the 15th January 1943, at 11.00 a.m., with Lt. Phillipp KUPFER (° 1912 in Lehe) of JFS 1, in a transfer flight to JGr.OST (in St Jean d'Angély?).
It crashed in L'Escaillère (100% damage) on the border between Belgium and France.

The underside of the left wing tip was painted in yellow, suggesting this aircraft flew in Eastern front. A label inside gives AGO as builder and F-1-2 model.

Thanks in advance for any info's.

Best regards

ClinA-78

[John Beaman]

You sure about that date or WNr.? He's what I have:

Bf 109F-2. 9719, n.name, 10./JG 51, CH+OG, 18-Mar-42, Take-off accident. WNr. 9716 per Prien.VIII.Fl.Korps/Eins.Osten, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #5)-Vol.8; Prien, et al, Die Jagdfliegerverbände, IX.1, p.121; Menke, SKZ list
Fl.Pl. Wjasma-Gradina, 60%, F

[ouidjat]

I have the two losses; same dates, same WNr., same places. No apparent contradiction, 60% isn't that high.

[ClinA-78]

Hello,

The date is sure, confirmed by a written Gendarmerie report. I don't have the primary source for the WNr. 9719.
So, was this aircraft previously damaged in a take-off accident at the East front?

[ouidjat]

From what John wrote (Loss seems pretty well documented), from what I got: apparently yes.
But I can't help more...

Any relation with a next following volume of "Pertes de la chasse de jour allemande en France: 1943" ???? .

Cheers, Franck.

Aaaach; note: As for 9716, CH+OD, - "By Prien" as pointed by John - I have a loss on 10/07/1942, with 5./JG 51. No more details since I didn't took care pretty much - at the begining - for those losses I started one year ago; Of course I got it on internet, BUT WHERE???

[ClinA-78]

Hello Frank,

In fact, this data is partly extracted from the 'les pertes de la chasse allemande...' manuscript ; which I have for many years...

So it gives a founded hypothesis concerning the yellow wing tip.

Thanks to all for your help.

Best regards

ClinA-78

[ouidjat]

When you talked about "Rapport de gendarmerie" I thought <<I know that style>>! How many years more to wait for???

OK, of course that yellow tip make sense. I won't be the one to say "Hey, you're wrong!" .... At least for that one; he, he he...

Aller, salut et à bientôt!

Franck.

[ClinA-78]

Hello Franck,

I don't understand you... May you explain (in French).
Well, Gendarmerie reports are indeed rare document, very few surviving; however this one says:

"J'ai l'honneur de porter à votre connaissance qu'un avion allemand de chasse s'est écrasé au sol ce jour, 15 janvier 1943, à 11h00 dans un champ à l'Escaillière centre. L'avion a éclaté après avoir touché le sol et les débris sont éparpillés sur une longueur d'environ deux cents mètres et une largeur de cinquante mètres. Parmi les débris se trouve un cadavre déchiqueté, vraissemblablement celui du pilote. Aucun autre corps n'a été retrouvé. La garde des débris de l'appareil et du corps est assurée par le personnel de la brigade en attendant l'arrivée des autorités allemandes. La Kreiskommandantur de Charleroi a été informée aussitôt par téléphone par nos soins".

Concerning the manuscript, it was given to me by the author, so no invention.

Best regards

ClinA-78

[ouidjat]

I'm sorry Clin,

The former issues of that serie are full of "Rapports de gendarmerie". That's the link I made in my little head. No more...
And I just said I/We are waiting for the next issue ... Year 1943.

Cheers, Franck.

[ClinA-78]

No problem.
Unfortunately we may still wait a long moment for the series because De Krijger Edition has been dissolved (for the Belgian losses) and I guess Pierre Watteeuw doesn't seem to research another publisher by himself. I presume there are also personal reasons too.

Best regards

ClinA-78