Questions on 8th AF Swinemünde raid on 12 March 1945

[Chris Going]

Dear Juha

I happen to have the details of the Ordnance expended on March 12th 1945 by 8th USAAF.

They were:

100lb M30 x 6,657;
250lb M57 x 232
300lb M31 x 180
1000lb M44 x 130
1000lb M65 x 692
1000lb RDX x 257
500lb M17 x 442.

Fusing was:

Nose fuses
ANM 103 Inst x 3643;
ANM 103 0.1 x 952
M127 Mech. Time x 294
M138 Mech. Time x 150

Tail fuses:
M100A2 x 7073
M102A2 x 1084

I think I have the ammunition expenditures for this day as well, somewhere. This might be useful, I think

ChrisG

[Juha]

Hello Chris and thank You very much indeed!!!
Very useful, I must check the bomb types tonight from Freeman's 8th AF War Manual, but 100 and 300 lbs might have been frags, but I must check that.

Thankfully
Juha

[Juha]

Hello again, Chris
I added up the total weight of the bombs on Your list and got ”only” 2.077.700lb. Now Helmut Schnatz gives in his web-article different load and gives the weight of the bombs dropped on Swinemünde as 1.608,5 Tonne (US, 1.457,3 to metric). When I saw that first time I compared that to the figures Freeman gives in his The Mighty Eight War Diary. I did only rough adding but Freeman’s figure was appr. the same. And 8th AF attacked also other marshalling yards on that day according to Freeman.
Would You like comment that?
I’ll make a more exact calculation on Freeman’s figures tonight or tomorrow. The Society of Finnish Military Historians has a meeting today and I don’t know when I’ll be back home tonight.

And thanks again for Your list
Juha

[Juha]

I checked from Freeman, others are GPs but M-17s which were incendiaries, air bursting with M-127 and M-138 fuses. 100lb bombs were usual in attacks on marshalling yards. According to Freeman bombers of 8th AF dropped on 12 March 45 3003 tons/tonnes of bombs of which 1608,5 on Swinemünde. Maybe the M-17s gave to German refugees impression that they were under fragmentation bomb attack.

Juha

[Chris Going]

Dear Juha

Small wonder my data gave you lower totals than the secondary sources indicated -I summarised the expenditures of 1AD only. Apologies. The ordnance Expenditures of 2 and 3AD still to come. A quick look at it indicates it is more of the same, although some oddities like 'P' (Progaganda) bombs etc. I'll try to get this data up at the weekend as I am a bit rushed for time at the moment. I'll give you doc citation should you want it.

Incidentally the article on Dresden in the North -does S give casualty citation in the 20,000 (twenty thousands) -or am I getting that bit wrong?

The Geheimentagesberichte Rep gives c 1500 casualties does'nt it???


ChrisG

[Juha]

Hello Chris
I have again problems in sending messages. A new try.
Thanks again for the info. It would be nice to have info on the loads of 2 and 3 AD but the most important info for me was that their loads were much the same that those of the 1 AD. Most important was that there was no Mk 81s or other frags. And source information is always welcome.
As I understand Helmut Schnatz’s article (and my knowledge on German has always been very limited and is nowadays also very rusty) is that he tries to deny the claim, which seems to have gaining ground in today’s Germany , of 23.000 killed. According to him 4.000 – 5.000 killed is a more realistic figure.
Friedrich writes that there were over 1.600 identified dead but that most victims were buried without identification. According to him the figure of 23.000 killed is from local sources but he also has his doubts and writes that maybe a ½ or a third of that number is the truth.

Thanks again
Juha

[Juha]

Hello again Chris
according to Freeman, 1 AD as well as the other two ADs dropped appr. a half of their loads to Swinemünde and the other half on other targets which were, according to Freeman, all marshalling yards. This makes the situation more complicated because I don’t know if the loads dropped to Swinemünde were more or less identical to those dropped to other targets or not.
There is not necessary conflict with the 1 AD load list that You gave and the info Delmenhorst and Helmut Schnatz have given even if it is little bit odd to me that 1 AD would have dropped almost all of its 1000lb bombs to Swinemünde and all the lighter ones to other targets, but 100lb bombs were used mostly against marshalling yards but I think that some 1000lbs ought to be dropped to those targets as well. But this is pure speculation. When I’ll get some free time I’ll try to obtain Helmut Schnatz’s book Der Luftangriff auf Swinemünde. Dokumentation einr Tragödie, Herbig Verlag, München 2004 and read it.

Juha

[Chris Going]

Juha

Time to add some more to Thursdays posting on Mission Expenditure reports for March 12th 1945. The data are from USAAF Form 00-Amm-2BB, stamped by the Ordnance Officer, Hq 8th Air Force, APO 654 (I think) US Army, for March 12th 1945.

300M31 1000GP 1000RDX 500RDX 500M17 250GP 100GP P 500XII

1AD: 180 822 257 - 442 252 6,657 - -

2AD: - 918 162 4 - - 6,152 30 2

3AD: - 1097 057 - - 450 9,252 30 -

TOTs 180 2,837 476 4 442 702 22,341 60 2


Fusing details to follow asap.


ChrisG

[Juha]

Thanks a lot again, Chris.
Delmenhorst gives 3.211 1000lb GP bombs dropped on Swinemünde if I calculated the figures right, and in Your list there are 3.293 those bombs. So it is still possible to accept both, even if that means that 97,5% of 1000lb GPs were dropped on Swinemünde. The problem is those 18 70 Incd dropped by 2AD according to Delmenhorst’s message. Those suit the description of M47A2 (an incendiary bomb of 70lb nominal weight), but according to Freeman, it was not used by 8th AF. But in Freeman’s War Manual there is surprisingly little on bombs when one remembers that the original raison d’être of 8th was the bombing, so there might be other bombs which suited in the description or maybe 500XII in Your list means M12 cluster. According to Freeman M12 was a cluster of 6lb M69 incendiary bombs. He doesn’t tell how many bombs there were in one cluster but 70*6lb makes 420lb, add to weight of the case or other material which keeps the cluster together one gets enough close to 500lb that the cluster might have got to nominal 500lb range. After all the M17 cluster had 110 4lb M50A1s. But according to Your list 2AD dropped only 2 500XII and only 6 500lb bombs altogether and there are 20 500lbs in Delmenhorst's list. Maybe at some level there has been a clerical error. Or maybe there just wasn’t column for every type of bombs in the loading sheets, so some were put down in the column the clerk thought as the nearest equivalent.
But You both seemed to agree that there were no fragmentation bombs and that's the most important info to me just now because of the book review. The other info is also important and have greatly enhanced my knowledge on the Swinemünde attack on which I knew next to nothing only a few weeks ago.
So again thanks a lot for Your input and effort
Juha

[uckwash]

Hey chaps.

Might be a wee bit out of context, but take a look at the Missing Aircrew Report, re. CO 336th Major Mcfarlane, shot down in a P51 over Denmark that day:
http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/1163/presentation5.jpg

Also his own words recorded afterwards found at:
http://www.fourthfightergroup.com/resource/tourist.html

Its a really good read & of interest to any Danish readers.

Dave