Late war Bf 109 pictures source

[Rasmussen]

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann

W.Nr. 490 xxx - 491 xxx

2. Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 490 383 "Rote 17", Lt. Josef Jordan, 6./JG 300, before 14 January 1945. Prien and Rodeike 1995, p. 158.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625208099917

Hello Marc,

you have to be more carefull with your research before you create new myths ... not all G-10 called Erla G-10 were Erla G-10 like #2. The Wnr. is wrong ... look on the chin bulges. I can't see your pictures but I fear there are some mistakes.

Regards
Rasmussen

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Originally Posted by Rasmussen

Hello Marc,

you have to be more carefull with your research before you create new myths ... not all G-10 called Erla G-10 were Erla G-10 like #2. The Wnr. is wrong ... look on the chin bulges. I can't see your pictures but I fear there are some mistakes.

Regards
Rasmussen

Agreed Rasmussen!

That's why I chose to go public: to be a common intelligence around this so intricate topic of late war Bf 109's... Thanks to the inputs of you all, this free for all fledgeling visual Encyclopedia of all W.Nr. documented Bf 109 G-6 through K-4 is gaining verified and solid ground.

Thanks again!
Marc

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann

...
Actually, the ones with late war standardized tails which seem common with the K-4 camouflage pattern are very rare. The only one I know about is Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr. 491 300, Gardelegen 14 April 1945. Luftwaffe im Focus 2, p. 34.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...57625208099917

Cheers
Marc

Working on the database, I just noticed I forgot to post the following Erla G-10 among the late war standardized camouflage patterns tails:

Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr.152 354 "Schwarze 2", I./JG 4, Kleinhau, 18 December 1944. Hildebrandt 1988, p. 5
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

Cheers
Marc

[Rasmussen]

Originally Posted by Marc-André Haldimann

Bf 109 G-10 W.Nr.152 354 "Schwarze 2", I./JG 4, Kleinhau, 18 December 1944. Hildebrandt 1988, p. 5
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...in/photostream

Marc,

how I wrote --- be careful with captions taken from other books! Your "Erla G-10" with "late war standardized camouflage pattern tails" is the Bf 109G14/AS W.Nr. 782354 "black 2" from 14./ JG 4, Oblt. Ernst Scheufele. Beside this ... an Erla W.Nr. 152 354 didn't exist.

Regards
Rasmussen

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Originally Posted by Rasmussen

Marc,

how I wrote --- be careful with captions taken from other books! Your "Erla G-10" with "late war standardized camouflage pattern tails" is the Bf 109G14/AS W.Nr. 782354 "black 2" from 14./ JG 4, Oblt. Ernst Scheufele. Beside this ... an Erla W.Nr. 152 354 didn't exist.

Regards
Rasmussen

Rasmussen,

Thanks again for correcting me; I'm deeply indebted to all researchers who help correcting the content of this database.
Looking also forward to be one of your first avid reader for your upcoming Erla book;-)


Oberst,

Thanks for your precision.

Cheers
Marc

[Pilot]

Most of images are Private...

[Marc-André Haldimann]

Oups!

Checking and switching;-))

...and done!

Cheers
Marc

[Pilot]

Thank you very much Marc for your update. This image is well known and a bit doubtful about the very dark color used for camouflage:

[Cpt_Farrel]

A couple of thoughts here, I agree that most Erla built G-10's seems to have a freely mottled tailplanes rather than the stenciled ones often seen on Mtt Regensburg aircraft.

The JG300 aircraft you're showing are all G-14/AS aircraft, Red 17 and Green 12 were built by Mtt.Regensburg and Red 2 is a very rare Erla built Bf-109G-14/AS. So the Wrk.Nr's are wrong

Yellow 2 seems to have the smaller fuselagecross so it's not from the first batch/batches produced as those had standard fuselage crosses.

Cheers / Anders

[RolandF]

Hi all,
the Bf 109 tail units were fabricated by subcontractors; tailfin and rudder being produced by different wood-working factories to include also these industries into the Nazi war effort.
Those parts were pre-fabricated completely including camo and markings as can be seen in Merrick´s "Luftwaffe camo and markings" p.42 and D'Amico and Valentini's "Camo and markings of the ANR" p.117. Very often fin and rudder did not fit together concerning colour and colouring techniques as can be seen in the last example - a combination of mottled respectively stencilled camo on rudder resp. fin.
Fins with different camo were even produced side by side as can be seen on p.19 of Green's "Augsburg's Last Eagles". Fins with stencilled camo beside ones with mottled camo.
Mtt Regensburg production sites oftenly tried to compensate these different colour treatments by overspray with RLM 76.
The other point to be taken into consideration is the fact hat Mtt Regenburg wasn´t a homogenuous production site for the Bf 109G.
Fuselage production took place in "Gauting"(Hagelstadt), "Bürg"(KZ Flossenbürg) and KZ Mauthausen "Gusen").
Final assembly was in Regensburg-Obertraubling, Cham-Michelsdorf and Vilseck-Heringnohe.
Result were different camo schemes as can be seen examining the different placements of the Werknummern.
As long as it cannot be determined which Werknummern have been applied at the different production sites there will be little sense to establish any painting rules or regular schemes. Not to mention the different deliveries of the tail assembly.
Hope this helps

Regards

Roland