Australian Spitfires

[JeffK]

There is also an excellent book that covers the Darwin portion of their work.

Spitfires over Darwin - 1943

Give a yell if you need help, I've actually touched the Spit Mk VIII at Temora :-)

PS. 79 Sqn worked up at Wooloomanata which is only 5 minutes away before it went to the SW Pacific

[JeffK]

Troy,

I am also about 30 miles from the RAAF Museum at Point Cook, If there is anything there I can help with let me know.

[bearoutwest]

Originally Posted by JeffK

There is also an excellent book that covers the Darwin portion of their work.

Spitfires over Darwin - 1943

Jeff,

Can you give some more details of this book, author, publisher, etc? I'm also interested in finding out more about the Spitfire operations over Darwin.

[Jim Oxley]

lThe book is written by jim Grant, who actually served with No.1 Fighter Wing at Darwin as ground crew. The book was first published in 1995 by R. J. Moore with reprints in 1995 and 1996.

The second (current) edition was published by TechWrite Solutions (Vic) Pty Ltd ni 2003. ISBN 0 646 23632 6.

The book has an excellent table detailing actual losses (operational and non-operational causes) as opposed to claims. The worst day of losses was on 2/5/43, when 49 Spitfires took-off to intercept 41 raiders (Raid No.54). This was the third Japanese raid that the Spitfires had been called upon to intercept since commencing operations in Darwin - the first being on 2/3/43 and the second being 15/3/43.

Of the 14 Spitfires lost in combating Raid No.54 3 were ost to enemy action, 2 to unknown causes (no-one saw them go), 4 to engine failure and five to fuel shortage. Only two pilots were lost, those two who no-one saw disappear. In return No.1 Wing claimed 4 Zero's shot down, 1 Betty and 5 Zero's as probables and 1 Betty and 7 Zeros' damaged.

[JeffK]

Thanks Jim, beat me to the draw.....

Having a look few a few other articles, and in a table at the end of the book, the Spits had a horrendous loss record due to "Operational " reasons. They were crashing everywhere!

[Jim Oxley]

Yeah Jeff, the table at the back of the book details the loss of almost 160 Spitfires, all but 21 due to 'operational causes' eg, fuel starvation, crash landing, engine failures, crashes on take-off, collisions whilst taxing etc.

And a study of No.80 Fighter Wings' maintenance records on Morotai Island tells a similar story. Frightful wastage of aircraft due to 'operational causes'.

Although arguably that the Spitfire was perhaps the greatest dogfighter aircraft of WWII, it's performance in the Pacific Theatre - Darwin, Morotai and Burma - leaves a lot to be desired. It just was not suited to such a demanding environment.

[JeffK]

Add to the problems the Spits had, it appears that RAAF HQ thought the correct action was to issue the new aircraft to the OTU's and then pass on the clapped out fighters on to the operational Squadrons.

Also the missions were often longer and flown at around 25-32,000ft, putting extra strain on an airframe and engine that was designed for the more civilised skies of Europe.

[Juha]

Hello
in Osprey's Spitfire V aces by A. Price there is an analyze on the Darvin battles, claims and the the losses as the participated AFs (RAAF, IJNAF and IJAAF) recorded them. That's only for the major raids IIRC. Being at work cannot give details but Aussies seemed to have overclaimed rather heavily.
For F4F please refer the excellent The First Team and The First Team at Guadalcanal by Lundstrom. Claims checked against Japanese records, in appendices info on Japanese formations and tactics, on USN tactics etc. Really excellent books. Only small complain I can made is that in the First Team there might be some underestimanation on the effects of USN AA.

Juha

[Troy White]

G'day y'all--

I recently had an RAAF veteran tell me that 457 Squadron Spitfires did not have white leading edges to their wings prior to shark mouths being painted on them and that only squadron leaders had red spinners painted on their Mk VIIIs. He had no photographic proof of this only his recollection.

I love getting together with veterans and hearing their stories (they are what inspire my paintings) but over the years I have found that more often than not are not correct when they say things like this. I have seen plenty of photos of 457 squadron Mk Vs and VIIIs with white leading edges and what appear to be red spinners but I just wanted to throw this out there to see if anyone had any real data especially on spinner color.

Blue Skies
Troy

[sjmacke]

I can throw a bit of light on these points.

a) White wing leading edges - the initial Spitfire Mk.Vs did not have them but after the RAAF issued the order requiring their use, they probably had them painted on in late 1943/ early 1944.

Unfortunately photos of the Mk.Vcs from this era are pretty scarce.

The early Spitfire Mk.VIIIs in the A58-300 to 550 range initially used by 457 Sqn were mostly painted in the Temperate scheme of Dark Green/ Dark Earth uppersurfaces ( or the RAAF similar colours - Foliage Green / Earth Brown if repainting had been required ) complete with White wing leading edges.

After the unit received Spitfire HF.Mk.VIIIs in the A58-600 range, they were operated in the Dark Green/ Ocean Grey schemes that they were delivered in with initially White wing leading edges. Late in the war however the White leading edges were not always painted onto replacement airframes as there was no longer an official requirement for them.

Also on some machines which had previously had them, they became very worn and faded and often hard to pick up in photos.

b) As for only squadron leaders having Red spinners painted on their Mk VIIIs, he is clearly mistaken with his memory on this one.

Initially ALL the Mk.VIIIs had Red spinners, no matter who was flying them. Sometime in 1945, these were changed to White for 457 Sqn.

I have ample photos to illustrate this point. For instance of the 3 airframes flown by Fred Inger (who certainly did not have the rank of Sqn Leader), the first two had Red spinners, the last one White.

A58-419 ZP-Y 'Blondie' - Temperate scheme, no sharkmouth, Red spinner
A58-615 ZP-Y - Dark Green/ Ocean Grey scheme, initially small sharkmouth, later changed to the larger version, Red spinner with White backplate.
A58-672 ZP-Y - Dark Green/ Ocean Grey scheme, large sharkmouth, White spinner.

HTH

Steve Mackenzie
Co-author Ventura Classic Warbirds #2 - 'Spitfire - the Anzac Story'