Oblt ??? of ZG26 Battle of Britain

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

In the hopes of furthering the identification of this dramatic incident, I'm posting here five photos from the Oct 1, 1940 edition of "Signaal" (the Dutch edition of "Signal" Magazine). There are a total of 17 photos in this sequence, from the Bf110C appearing in the distance (photo #1) with smoke trailing behind it and a Spitfire circling overhead. The plane gets lower and lower and finally ditches (Photo #2) in a huge spray of water. The crew is then seen struggling to get out of the cockpit as the tail raises (Photo #3) in the air above the two men. The plane then sinks with the tail almost coming down on top of the two men struggling in the water (Photo #4) then disappears from sight. Then an He59 a/c from the Seenotflugkommando (Code NE+??) comes into view, circles, lands near the two men and taxies to them (Photo #5). The two men then swim to the back of the aircraft where a crewmen comes down the rear ladder and helps them aboard. I've only attached highlight photos with the rest filling in the story between these.

After careful study of this account, I'm almost certain that this rescue is described by the van Ishoven account I posted above. This has to be after the SNFlKdo a/c were camouflaged in late July/early August, and before the Bf110Cs of I./ZG26 were painted with white noses around the beginning of September, 1940. The date of publication is consistent with an August, 1940, event. If the incident is the same, we know that the a/c is either U8+GH or U8+GL of 1 or 3./ZG26 (white I./ZG26 rear fuselage band and white or yellow "G.") The plane carried 2 victory bars and the pilot was probably the unidentified Oblt of the van Ishoven account. The aircraft was obviously a 100% loss, but there is no known incident in late July or August to the beginning of Sept., 1940, that fits all the evidence for this incident. There are probably no more than four Oblt., including possibly two StaKap , serving at this time in 1 or 3./ZG26. The two victory bars would probably ID the pilot if we had complete records for victory claims by pilots of those two squadrons, which we do not. Note that Kogler was a Hptm, so that seems to eliminate him; might have been his temporary replacement though. So who can solve this mystery?

I'd also certainly like to find a source for better quality images of these photos for publication in the EOE Vol 4 (Vol I for the BoB), if anyone knows a source for these.

Regards,

[cbe2009]

Hello!
In John Weals book "Me 110 Zerstörer aces of ww2" it says that the pilot of the pictures above is Fw. Jakob Birndorfer from 6./ZG 76. Whether it is true or not i don´t know.

Best wishes

Christian

[John Vasco]

Originally Posted by Brian

Hi guys

Very confusing to say the least.

How about the Bf110 (3263) of III/ZG26 lost on 25 September 1940? Crew unnamed and therefore uninjured. I'm referencing John Vasco & Peter Cornwell's excellent Zerstorer.

Cheers
Brian

Brian,
III./ZG 26 Bf 110s never carried the small white ring around the rear fuselage.

[Brian]

Hi John

I hoped you would join the discussion.

Actually, I did not suggest that the Bf110 in the picture sequence was the aircraft in which I am interested! My interest is the crew mentioned in the ditching/rescue per the reproduced account.

My suggestion is that it might have been the aircraft of III/ZG26 lost on 25 September, for which we have no crew indentification. Any ideas?

Cheers
Brian

[Larry Hickey]

Brian,

Peter Cornwell and John Vasco, both experts on the Bf110 have both looked at this issue in the past and have not found a resolution. As John points out, this can only be a I./ZG26 aircraft due to the white ring on the rear fuselage, which is diagnostic to that unit during the BoB period. III./ZG26 did not carry such a marking. I entirely dismiss the identification of this as a ZG76 aircraft/crew for the same reason.

Perhaps one small additional clue to help ID this incident may be the comment that both crewmen were injured, so there may be a casualty report somewhere in the German system if the injuries were serious enough. There is no surviving KTB for I./ZG26 for this period, at least that I know of, in the hands of the BA. Perhaps reporting at a higher level might detect this loss, which appears to have been missed in the German QM records. I've tried to get at this one through the SNFlKdo records, but the existing KTB for SNFlKdo 3 (covers the eastern channel area) at the BA does not start until 05-09-40, which is too late for this incident. The SNFlKdo 2 KTB for the BoB, covering the central channel area out of Cherbourg, does begin on Aug 12th and goes to mid-December, 1940, but we have this and the He59 NE+?? does not appear as an aircraft in their records, and it records the unit codes of pretty much all of their aircraft active on operations during this period. So, it appears, with the missing time frame for SNFlKdo 3, where I would expect this rescue to be documented somewhere in the mid-August time frame, we're not going to find the answer unless someone comes up with some of that unit's records stretching back to the beginning of the BoB. If anyone knows of such records, I'd certainly like to hear from them. Not only is this incident not documented but there are numerous other ditchings by Bf109s, with pilots being subsequently rescued by the He59s, for which the German QM records do not provide identification of the pilots. These missing SNFlKdo3 records would likely fill in many missing details for these 109s during July/August, 1940, perhaps including unknown pilot's names.

One other possible way to solve this would be if we can find a crewmen's Flugbuch from I./ZG26 for the respective period that mentions something about this incident. At the moment, I'm not aware of any FB records that would solve this mystery.

Regards,

[Brian]

Hi Larry

You, too, misunderstand my quest!!

I am endeavouring to establish the author of the account that appears in van Ishoven's book (which you have kindly reproduced). I believe this may have been the ditching that occurred on 25 September 1940.

As far as I am aware, this was NOT the ditching filmed. Or do you know otherwise?

Cheers
Brian

[John Manrho]

Hptm. Kogler spent 4 days in his dinghy also before being rescued.

J.

[Larry Hickey]

Brian,

I've carefully studied the circumstances of the account and the photos, and I'm convinced that they relate to the same incident.

Regards,

[Chris Goss]

According to Kogler, he was picked up 3 days later off Nieuport

[Larry Hickey]

Brian,

Here is what we have in the EOE DB on the Sept. 25, 1940 incident:

"III./ZG26 Messerschmitt Bf110C-4 (3263). Crashed in the Channel during combat with RAF fighters south of Weymouth during escort sortie for KG55 attack on Filton 12.00 p.m. Crew rescued unhurt by Seenotdienst. Aircraft 100% write-off."

It's not impossible that this incident could be the van Ishoven account. Note however, that the narrative said both crewmen were injured, and this says that they were not. I've read the Heinrich Weiss narrative about this mission, which is quite detailed, but there simply isn't enough information on this ZG26 loss to associate it with the account. As I said above, I find the areas of close agreement throughout the 17 photos and the narrative by the u/i ZG26 pilot extremely compelling and I believe that they relate to the same incident. The photos obviously cannot be of the Sept. 25, 1940 loss. According to Weiss, the search and rescue operations for the crew of this a/c were handled by SNFlKdo 2, flying out of Cherbourg. I've not yet received the KTB pages for Sept 25, 1940, for that unit from the translator and I'll update this post if they provide any support for that account being the incident on the 25th. However, I'm not expecting that to be the case.

Regards,