Camouflage and subtype for 4./TrGr186 Ju87 Stukas during the PC?6

[RolandF]

The starboard side seems to show a three-tone upper side camo imo.
All markings are definitely pre-war including the swasika overlapping tailfin and rudder. Most likely an overpainted white disc on a red tail band is hidden beneath the tail camo.
According to the sources six Ju87B-0 pre-production examples were built from Ju87A airframes. This variant featured the multi-tone pre-war camo. Maybe this particular machine is one of the B-0 examples.

Regards

Roland

[philippe1]

hello, pre-production series junkers JU 87B-0,D-IELX this machine still features old type of painting scheme-splintered pattern of RLM 61 Braun
RLM 62 grun and RLM 63 hellgrau with undersides in RLM 65 hellblau
black registration letters D-IELX are visible under wings .This machine was probably one of the only 3 JU87 Bs with old style camouflage typical of a ju87A
now about production of C-1
the RLM gave green light in jan 39 to start the production at weser's bremen facility .A pre-production batch of 10 aircraft was ordered on 1 april 1939 with deliveries planned between April and July 1940 .Deliveries of 120 examples of the C-1production variant were set to take place between july 40-and April 41
The JU87C-0 order was soon reduced to five aircraft , since that number was believed to be adequate for final testing prior to full-scale production .
suspension of work on the graf zeppelin aircraft carrier resulted in the RLM's decision of october 6,1939 to reduce the JU87 C-1 order from 120 to 30 examples
cheers
phil

[Bf 110]

Hello,

regarding the version of the Stuka there's some info in AirDOCs World War II Combat Aircraft Photo Archive ADC 005 - Junkers Ju 87 - Part 1 by Manfred Griehl. A quote from page 8 about "C" version:
"On August 10, 1937, the RLM issued the request for a carrier capable dive-bomber, the Ju 87 Tr. (C). [Tr. means Träger = carrier] The aircraft based on the Ju 87 B in its final version was to have rear folding wings, strengthened landing gear and arrestor hook. Initially, two Ju 87 B-0 were modified as Ju 87 C-0. On March 3, 1938, the Ju 87 V10 (WerkNr. 4928, ZK+HD) commenced the flight tests but only had fixed wings. The second trial aircraft, Ju 87 V11 (WerkNr. 4929, TV+OV) was built as C-1 with folding wings. The first five C-1s were completed in spring 1941."
If this is right, it's improbable that Caesars flew in PC.

Regards,
Bf 110

[Graham Boak]

From most comments and representations, 72/73 had a lower contrast than 70/71, so that's unlikely to be the explanation. However, if this is expanded to "experimental maritime colours" then there is no way of distinguishing between sensible comments and wild guesses. The Feiseler torpedo bomber was used for experimental schemes, but it seems unlike that conventional Stukas would have been added to the trials.

The key point I would make is not to guess at the colours, but look at the patterns. The intricate shape seen on the nose is not representative of the early scheme, which involved a large number of segments.

There is the unexplained existence of a rare interim scheme, apparently using the early colours but with fewer segments, less intricate than the 70/71 scheme. This is seen on He111Ps and export Ju52s, but has not been noted on Ju87s.

[Modeldad]

Larry;

I do not think that aircraft is a "C". Simply a B-1. Based on what I have been able to gather the couple of C-0s that existed were re-jiggered early B-1 models. The pictures I have of a C-0 (wearing civil code of possibly D-IIGM) also do not show a hook being added, but there does appear the point at which the hook attached to the fuselage. In your pictures, that attachment point does not seem to be there.The colors appear to be none other than 70/71, showing the same low contrast as other B-1s.

The C-1 appears to be a re-jiggered B-1 with the late style exhausts (as appeared also on the B-2). They clearly have a hook applied. Once again 70/71.

Another point about the C model was that there was a clear seam runnining around the wing at the very point that the landing gear attached to the wing. That was the point at which the wing folded. Shame there is no close up of that area in your pictures.

With regard to the color scheme, I'd say it was 70/71,I have found only one other picture in my collection with that degree of contrast. Most aircraft have a low contrast and even appear to be in a single dark green color. But the high contrast may be the effect of a filter. The photographer may have used a green filter. Green would have lightened greens. From an article on filters (don't have specific source): Many early pan films were over-sensitive not only to blue but also to red, leaving a dip for green in the sensitivity curve. Kodak Panatomic was originally of this type. So would it not be logical to keep down both the blue and the red simultaneously with a green filter? Many thought so, the filters were duly produced --- and discussed. No issue of a photo periodical in the 'thirties was complete without an article about 'the filter question', and especially the green filter question.





email me at modeldad@verizon.net if you need pictures of Bs and Cs, I have collected many.

[ChrisS]

Here is another with a camouflage pattern that does not seem to fit the early or normal splinter pattern.

[Modeldad]

Originally Posted by ChrisS

Here is another with a camouflage pattern that does not seem to fit the early or normal splinter pattern.

Yes, that is the very picture with which Larry started this thread.

I also realized that the picture I posted is of an aircraft with 3/186. Perhaps the same photographer, same film and filter, if that is what caused the odd appearance of the camouflage.

[ChrisS]

Sorry I posted the wrong picture!!! Try again!!

[Graham Boak]

Both photos at the start of the thread, and the one above, show the standard pattern for 70/71 for the Ju87B, see Diagram 12 in Kookaburra's Luftwaffe Colours Vol 1. (The original volume 1, though I haven't checked what might be in the replacement one.)

Totally, absolutely (boringly) standard. Shame really.

[Flitzer]

Bright sunlight, film type, combine to show colors lighter than usual. the contrast beween the 70 and 71 is not unusal. As the colors faded the 71 seemed to fade more than the 70.