Help identifying pictures from Norway

[ouidjat]

Hi John,
I don't know if you understood my last post; I don't know if I understood yours but with 80% damage, given by Francis, there is few chance if nil my proposition to be the good one.
And, unfortunately I have no other solution.

Franck.

[John Fredrik]

I misunderstood then..that means I still have this pain:-)
Hehe.. Still a mystery this one then.
Thanks anyway!

Cheers

John Fredrik

[ouidjat]

John,

You're from Trondheim, I have another loss in Trondheim in April.
It's an E-3 which is better. But damage rate is high; 70%.
But In April: is it that snowy? You can check for the house being there. Be patient; ask the eldest, ask the associations in Norway.
The answer - if it's possible to get it - may come tomorrow or next year.

I'm not the best in these columns. Many already published and you can be sure that even without immediate comments they are checking in their data. Can take times. Of course doesn't mean you'll get an answer.

At least, check your source. Where did you get the picture? Who gave you? Where did he get it?... etc... Doesn't mean I'm asking you to explain me this.

Good luck and Regards, Franck.

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi.

Well - not an easy one the Bf 109.

The location is definitely somewhere in Norway - but exactly where is not that easy to say. Could be middle Norway (around Trondheim), but also in the south (area around Mandal for example).

Also - this could be almost every variant of an E-series - we have well known photographs of E-7´s with the early version canopy - Horst Carganico even got this canopy version mounted on one of his Bf 109F´s for better visibility.

Units then... JG 77, Jagdgruppe Drontheim, JG 5 are all possible

Timeframe likely winter 1941 or winter 1942.

With regards to the amount of damage - to me it seems like this one has been on it´s back, the tail being damaged in a so-called ´Überschlag´ - a very common thing with the Bf 109 by landing and takeoff.

I have (unfortunately maybe) close to 1000 loss records for Bf 109´s in units under Luftflotte 5, so it is a bit of a needle in a haystack search - but it can be done by narrowing in on periods, locations and loss descriptions.

Request - has anyone got the NVM for the following loss:

http://www.aviationhistory.no/ref_db...?lossid=122594

Regards,
Andreas B

[flyvrak]

I have a strong feeling the pictures are of Hammesfahr's Bf 109 which crashed at Halsa.
Added a picture of the aircraft shortly after landing. The tail seems to be damaged and there is also snow on the ground.

http://ktsorens.tihlde.org/flyvrak/halsa.html

regards Kjell

[John Fredrik]

Hi Andreas and Kjell!

Thanks for feedback regarding identifying this 109.

Kjell have you been at this chrash site and do you remember if the surroundings match with my pictures?
Not unlikely that the plane was partly dismantled before transport..

Cheers
John Fredrik

[ouidjat]

Hi Kjell and John,

If the picture posted by Kjell is effectively Hammerfahr's white 12 then:
It's described as an E-7 but watch the E-3 early canopy style which was well described by Andreas!!!
That White 12 given by Kjell seems to match, in terms of damages, with the one given by John and commented by Andreas.
So Two solutions:
- Or it's the same ( and I was quite good talking about this loss!!!!) and the damage rate given by Francis is wrong ... Or the the guy who wrote it was drunk.
- Or the damage rate given by Francis is good, then the pictures posted by John and Kjell - I've no doubt it's the same plane - have nothing to do with Hammerfahr's loss.

Last, OK it's the good one... then after the belly landing at Halsanaustan the plane has been dismantled and put on a truck. Pictures - John ones - have been taken: Where? Christiansen? Then the house in background still exists??

Cheers, Franck.

[flyvrak]

Hei John Fredrik
I visited the crash site in 2004. There is a farm just above the field where the aircraft landed, and the houses in the background of your pictures could very well be this farm. I did not take any photos showing the farm, so I will check it next time I visit this area again.

[John Fredrik]

Originally Posted by flyvrak

Hei John Fredrik
I visited the crash site in 2004. There is a farm just above the field where the aircraft landed, and the houses in the background of your pictures could very well be this farm. I did not take any photos showing the farm, so I will check it next time I visit this area again.

Have studied some maps on the internett of the place and yes I could agree that the building on my pictures can be on of the houses on the farm next to the crash site.
I have never been there but how are the surroundings, mountains like on my pictures?
Air photo doesn`t tell me much about that

Thanks again all of you writing in this thread!

John Fredrik

[John Fredrik]

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