Mc202s in Dodecanese Oct/Nov 1943?

[Gianandrea Bussi]

The book about the history of the 154° Gruppo contains a few details about the activities of pilots of this unit after the armistice: they come from the Achille Vigna book about Italian AF in the period 1943-1952.

According to these sources, C.202 flew escorts to german bombers. They operated in the "Reparto Aereo Dodecanneso", formed on 30 october 1943.
One pilot was lost on 14 dicembre 1943 , shot down off Rhodos with his C.202: serg. magg. pil. Domenico Sancristoforo, allegedly the first pilot lost in combat by ANR.

The name of this pilot don't appear in the official loss personnel list (ANR and RA) held at the Italian AF historical Office (but this list is not 100% complete).

Two pictures are published: one with C.202's having spiral painted on their spinner, allegedly "the allarm patrol at Rhodos Maritsa"; a C.202 with german insigna, whose camouflage, according to the caption, was "very probably due" to the work of a maintenance unit operating in the Aegean when Luftwaffe markings were painted (near the aircraft, serg. magg. pil. Luigi Nazzari).

I've simply write down the info contained in the book in order to inform Ferdinando, the top ANR expert, of these details.

I don't know if they are true or not....

Gianandrea

[veltro]

Thanks Gianandrea for the interesting info.

One always has to learn, but a few "allegedly" thet you cautiously put in your text does show that these aren't informations that can't be taken simply with face value.

In my researches I haven't yet found any single document reporting such activities and/or the facts described in the texts you quote (not in any official or unofficial order of battle, text or diary - Like the Historical ANR diary which has entries since 23 september 1943 - there is a word on those operations and losses, which would have had a certain propaganda effect, if true) .

Of course I am not the measure of anything, but that in over 30 years nothing on that has crossed my path is, to say the least, very peculiar (not to mention the anachronistic behaviour of that unit which - as Nick correctly underlined - would have done the exact opposite of all other Italian units in face of the Germans which by then didn't trust at all the Italians...) .

At ay rate, since also the book of Achille Vigna doesn't offer any source for those statements, I guess I will have to ask him directly.

Thanks for having pointed out the thing and urged me to dig deeper into that.

[Brian]

Hi Gianandrea

Thanks for the input. I must this is all rather intriguing - I await the next instalment!

Does the book indicate how serg. magg. pil. Domenico Sancristoforo was killed? You mention 'shot down' and 'in combat' but who by?

Cheers
Brian

[veltro]

Just a little update on the topic.

I phoned to my old friend Achille Vigna and - out of the blue - asked him about the info he published in his book on 1999.

As usual, his reply was fully honest: he had reported on paper the oral memories of an old pilot friend of his (by now deceased) and that there are no other sources to support those.

At this point, after having asked to be updated if something more should turn out, there is little one could do, except for one thing:

In his book - page 116 - Vigna reports that "...the C.202s of 154° Gruppo escorted (betweeen November and December 1943) the Ju 88s of II./KG 54 and of II./KG 6 as well as the Ju 87s of I./St.G. 3 in missions against British convoys..."

It would be great to ask to the people in this forum if there are traces of such event in the diaries/memories/documents of those units... but this will be the object of a separate post.

P.S. concering the two photographs quoted, one was described by Vigna to me as being published also on a monography of the C.202 and, following this clue, the only one which could be is one already positively identified and located in one of Luftwaffe fighter schools in Orange, thus not being at all related to the unit in the Aegean. I've not yet been able to have a look at the other, so I suspend any opinion until then.

[veltro]

To complicate further things (as if it was necessary...), there is an entry I have found in a listing of Italian military personnel deceased in RSI service (source: Archivio Centrale dello Stato, Rome), where "Serg. Pil. SANCRISTOFORO Domenico" is reported deceased in aerial combat on 14 December 1943 near Scarpanto.

But (there's always a "but"), the unit is given as "Rep. Germanico L.02808" (literally "German Unit L.02808"), which implies that he was operating in a yet undetermined German unit under German command.

The plot thickens...

[Nick Beale]

L.02808 looks like a Feld Post Nummer — can anyone identify it?

[Larry deZeng]

02808

(Mobilmachung-1.1.1940) Stab Infanterie-Divisions-Nachschub-Führer 17,
(15.7.1942-24.1.1943) Kommandeur der Infanterie-Divisions-Nachschub-Truppe 17.


No relationship to the Luftwaffe or to the Mediterranean area. The 17.Inf.Div. never left Russia and in fall/Winter 1943-44 it was fighting while withdrawing westward from Taganrog to Nikopol in S Ukraine under XXIX. Armee-Korps/AOK 6.

Larry

[byron-]

Hello Ferdinando,

The Fp.Nr. has to be 02 708 nad not 02 808.
02 708 1941-10.02.44 Fl.H.Kdtr. (E) See 119/XI Suda

It is not a unit, it is the airfield (Seeflughafen) of Suda. There was the basis of 3./A.Gr.126

13.07.43 3./Seeaufklärungsgruppe 126 in Skaramanga von 3./Aufkl.Gr.126 (See) aufgestellt, Fp.Nr. 53 801
09.05.41-20.09.42 u. 18.02.43-13.02.43 in Skaramanga, 06.42 zeitweise von Skaramanga nach Suda,
07.43-10.43 in Skaramanga, 17.10.43-15.10.44 auf Leros und Milos. Das Flugplatz-Kdo. (15 Mann) ist nach
Leros verlegt und Dienstbetrieb aufgenommen. Die Staffel hat verlegt mit 6 Maschinen, 16 Mann fliegendes
Personal, einen Staka und 25 Mann technisches Personal. Funktrupp von Kavalla nach Leros versetzt.
Teile 06.44-09.44 Volos und Prevesa, mit He 60, T.8W G2 und Ar 196, Ende 03.42 mit 5 He 60 and 3
Fokker T.8 W, Mitte Juni 42 mit 9 Ar 196 und 3 He 60 in Reserve;
20.09.42-18.02.43 in 9./KG 100 umben., 18.02.43 nach Wiederaufstellung von KG 100 wieder zu A.Gr. 126

byron

[Gianandrea Bussi]

Brian,

Vignas book says "shot down by RAF fighters".

I have to add that only 154° Grp book maKes mention of Reparto Aereo Dodecanneso as such, Vigna's book says only that: "154° Gruppo went on operating in Aegean".


Gianandrea

[John Beaman]

Guys, some really great work and posts on this thread by so many "experten" on this Board.

This is what we are all about.

THX