Hooton's Luftwaffe Loss Totals - request for clarification

[Paul Thompson]

Originally Posted by ArtieBob

Part of the problem may be that Luftwaffe figures in different documents do not agree. But for what it is worth, there is Luftwaffe summary data for strength and losses for most of the war, with East figures separate from the rest (West, etc.) An RAF translation of "Gesamt Flugzeugverluste der Front- und Erganzungeinheiten" has quarterly data from 1940 to the end of 1944 with strength and losses for SEF, Bombers including Schlacht, and NJG. I don't have time to enter the entire table at this time, but here is the data for the quarter ending 31.12.43. SEF losses all-1954, East-335; SEF strength all-1561, East-385, Bomber losses all-1105, East-301; Bomber strength all-1604, East-241; NJG losses-323; NJG strength 611. Based on that data, my duty preference would be NJG. From sept 43 to Oct 1944 is a breakdown by month of losses as a result of air combat, bombed, strafed, Flak, etc. and non combat causes. There is another set of summary loss data, I can't put my hands on, but it give a much more detailed breakdown of loss data for 1944 and the first months of 1945. I did an analysis of this and posted some of the results on TOCH several years ago. IIRC, on a per mission basis, loss rates in the West were several times higher than those in the East, which surprised me when I first did the math. That the difference was so marked, even late in the war when I would have thought the USSR was pretty much on a par with the Luftwaffe was an eye opener for me.
Best Regards,
Artie Bob

Artie Bob, thank you very much for your input and for the tantalizing glimpse of something akin to the holy grail of loss totals! Would it be possible for you to post that information on the forum at some point in the future, or name the archival document wherein it is contained? I've done a quick search of your TOCH postings, but cannot seem to find those you are referring to. Could you possibly have posted that information on a different forum?

The totals you give add up to 636 SEF and bomber losses in the East in the final quarter of 1943. Hooton's sum for all losses for this period is 993, so it looks like these figures are reasonably similar.

The data in different sources certainly does not match very well, see as an illustration the comparison of monthly losses from January to October 1943 inclusive in Hooton's and Murray's books below:

Month Year Hooton combat H total Murray losses
January 1943 br 264 br 375 br 482
February 1943 br 226 br 386 br 318
March 1943 br 250 br 470 br 314
April 1943 br 147 br 315 br 238
May 1943 br 298 br 520 br 331
June 1943 br 209 br 379 br 249
July 1943 br 554 br 837 br 558
August 1943 br 386 br 682 br 472
September 1943 br 307 br 512 br 338
October 1943 br 272 br 471 br 279
November 1943 br 179 br 321 br 180

Paul Thompson

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Paul Thompson

... name the archival document wherein it is contained?

Paul Thompson

I can't say for certain but this looks like the kind of thing you find in National Archives files AIR20/7700 – /7712, which contain RAF translations of various Luftwaffe documents and statistics.

[Paul Thompson]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

I can't say for certain but this looks like the kind of thing you find in National Archives files AIR20/7700 – /7712, which contain RAF translations of various Luftwaffe documents and statistics.

Nick, thank you for the lead. Is there also a possibility that translations of this kind can be found at IWM Duxford or the AHB? If so, is there any way that a private individual can ask to gain access to those archives? I have next to no research experience myself, having only ever looked at some AIR files on the Desert war in the National Archives. This makes me wonder whether one has to be a researcher of some repute to get into either Duxford or the Air Historical Branch.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Paul Thompson

Nick, thank you for the lead. Is there also a possibility that translations of this kind can be found at IWM Duxford or the AHB? If so, is there any way that a private individual can ask to gain access to those archives? I have next to no research experience myself, having only ever looked at some AIR files on the Desert war in the National Archives. This makes me wonder whether one has to be a researcher of some repute to get into either Duxford or the Air Historical Branch.

The IWM has a website, so you could contact them and ask about Duxford. I've only ever written to the AHB, so I can't answer your question. I don't quite see why either would be preferable to visiting the Archives at Kew (unless you live near Duxford). Kew has the advantage of being purpose-built for researchers.

[Paul Thompson]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

The IWM has a website, so you could contact them and ask about Duxford. I've only ever written to the AHB, so I can't answer your question. I don't quite see why either would be preferable to visiting the Archives at Kew (unless you live near Duxford). Kew has the advantage of being purpose-built for researchers.

Nick, I am sorry for not making my meaning clear. The reason I mentioned Duxford and AHB is that I was considering the possibility that the documents in question are only available at one of those two locations, rather than Kew. I would much prefer to visit a London location, so perhaps I am inventing problems for myself!

Quite apart from the documents mentioned by Artie Bob, I was thinking specifically of Hooton's reference to the following: RAF Air Staff Post-Hostilities Studies, Book 21: "Luftwaffe Activity I" (IWM AHB 6, Tin 192, frame 1071-85). I seem to remember that this document, or book, is meant to be at Duxford. I'll check Hooton again tomorrow, the present description is from this link:
http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...7ac8c#p1434579

Have you ever come across the above source? AHB 6 should be the translated documents, but I have never come across an "IWM AHB" reference.