Bf109 G-10 late war - but very interesting camo !

[Charles Bavarois]

Gentleman,

may I add my two cents?

The aircraft certainly is no Erla G-10 as it has the curved engine-fairings on both sides of the fuselage. Erla G-10 had a different solution for the left side.

As far as the original german camo is discernable, it looks pretty much like standard late war MTT-Regensburg. I presume it being a G-14 AS.

Werknummer 152.104 can be ruled out, as Werknummernblock 152.xxx belongs to Erla G-10/R6s and AFAIK there were no Werknummern allocated for 152.1xx anyway. Rasmussen may be able to confirm this.

The same is true for Werknummer 782.104. The 782.1xx block from MTT-Regensburg started only at 782.129 running to 782.275. This aircraft were all Bf 109 G-6s (!) with only two G-14s interspred.

Regards

Carl

[Matti Salonen]

Charles, is this Werk.-Nr. a typo (it is in the NVM)?
1945-02-08, 5./Erg.JG 1, Bf 109G-6, 782105, 8 weiße, Raum Küstrin, Unbekannt um 10.30 uhr. Bruch 100 %.
Flugzeugführer Gefr Toifl, Karl, vermißt

Matti

[Rasmussen]

Originally Posted by Charles Bavarois

Werknummer 152.104 can be ruled out, as Werknummernblock 152.xxx belongs to Erla G-10/R6s and AFAIK there were no Werknummern allocated for 152.1xx anyway. Rasmussen may be able to confirm this.

Correct, there wasn't any Erla G-10 in a 152.1xxx batch ...

Regards
Rasmussen

[RT]

Seems there is a quite solid block formed with numbers a bit less than 782000, nd a bit after, at least from 781981 to 782011 more than a dozen of "Treffer" in that range, one at least owned by Mtt

Rémi

[Charles Bavarois]

Hello Matti,

AFAIK we have losses reported up to WNr. 782006 and there is a ULTRA report on WNr. 782011. Then we have a gap, the next WNr. is 782130, followed by a great amount of cosecutive WNr. reported. This is remarkably according with the Werknummer-batches running from 781.981 to 782.011 (all G-6) and 782.129 to 782.275 (source: original MTT-Regensburg production-plans).

My copy of the WASt-report on Gefr Toifl is very hard to read, it may be 782.105 or 782.185. What so ever, I think 782.105 should be not correct.

Greetings

Carl

[Oberst]

130000 – 130500 ~ Mtt-Regensburg G-10 - small main/long fixed tailwheel
150700 – 151000 ~ Erla G-10
151500 – 152000 ~ Erla G-10
490000 – 490800 ~ Erla G-10 - many were fitted with DB 605/AS - small main/long fixed tailwheel
491000 – 491600 ~ Erla G-10 - small main/long fixed tailwheel
610300 – 610600 ~ WNF G-10
610900 – 611000 ~ WNF G-10
611900 – 612000 ~ WNF G-10
612700 – 613000 ~ WNF G-10
613000 – 613300 ~ WNF G-10
770000 – 770400 ~ WNF G-10 - majority equipped with Rb50/30 camera
770900 – 771000 ~ WNF G-10 - majority equipped with Rb50/30 camera
771000 – 771200 ~ WNF G-10 - majority equipped with Rb50/30 camera

Erla-Leipzig
460322 to 460371
460645 to 461378 - Bf109G-14/AS
460372 to 460644 - Bf109G-14 & Bf109G-6/MW
461379 to 461999 - Bf109G-14
462632 to 463006 - Bf109G-14
463110 to 463248 - Bf109G-14
464047 to 464660 - Bf109G-14
464814 to 464924 - Bf109G-14
465250 to 465982 - Bf109G-14
WNF
510000 to 510010 - Bf109G-14/AS
510640 to 510999 - Bf109G-14/U4 & Bf109G-6/U4
511000 to 511905 - Bf109G-14/AS
512115 to 512650 - Bf109G-14/AS
Mtt-Reg
780301 to 780880 - Bf109G-14/AS Sept-Oct'44
780881 to 780999 - majority Bf109G-14/AS to Aug'44
781000 to 781210 - Bf109G-14/AS from Sept'44
781220 to 781999 - Bf109G-14/AS & unknown number Bf109G-14
782000 to 782280 - Bf109G-14/AS & unknown number Bf109G-14
782281 to 782430 - Bf109G-14/AS from Sept'44
782750 to 783999 - Bf109G-14/AS from Sept-Oct'44
784001 to 784200 - Bf109G-14/AS from Sept'44
784730 to 784999 - majority Bf109G-14/AS finished Sept'44
785000 to 785145 - majority Bf109G-14/AS from Oct'44
785146 to 785170 - Bf109G-14/AS from Oct'44
785175 to 785200 - majority Bf109G-14/AS from Nov'44
785600 to 785725 - majority Bf109G-14, Nov'44
785726 to 785999 - majority Bf109G-14/AS, Nov-Dec'44
786300 to 786540 - majority Bf109G-14/AS, Jan'45
787445 to 787495 - majority Bf109G-14/AS, Feb'45

[veltro]

Also, adding to the posts of Rasmussen and Charles Bavaroise, it is worth to add that there is a single detail that identify this aircraft as a G-14/AS and nothing else.

The small round hatch just below the hole for the starting crank was the access to the cold weather starting device, which was in that position on the DB 605A and AS only.

On the DB 605D the device was moved slightly upwards so that it was level with the starting crank hole. Being able to see where it is allows to determine if the plane was engined with a DB 605D or not.

Of course, on the "Black 4" it clearly is in the lower position...

[Oberst]

Yes the hatch is true, I think also the lower hatch with DB605D was welded shut, as seen on some foto. Also 'chin bulges' on G-14/AS, also true that it was the lower cowl available at time. I think there were 3 cowls, Type 100, Type 110, & a rare very specific one for port side G-6/AS Type 090.

[RolandF]

The gaps might be due to the air attack from 21st July 1944 on the Mtt Regensburg-Prüfening and Obertraubling factories. Two production hangars full with Bf109s of an advanced and final assembly status had been destroyed almost completely

Regards

Roland

[Matti Salonen]

I have now checked the WNr, of Gefr Toifl's Bf 109 from the original NVM at WASt. It is definitely 782105. Maybe we should seriously consider Roland's explanation for the "missing" numbers.

Matti