Colours used on JG54 109F aircraft at start of Barbarossa

[Franek Grabowski]

Kjetil

You amaze me, Franek! I have no doubt that you know a lot about Polish aviation and related fields, but from your last post it is obvious that you haven't really studied Luftwaffe camouflage and markings or have completely failed to grasp the meaning of what you are seeing. You demonstrate a level of ignorance I thought impossible by someone who frequents this forum so often as you do.

Well, experience gathered in interpretation of RAF colours, both in colour and B&W photos allows me to draw some conclusions. I simply extrapolated them on a Luftwaffe field and as yet I see no proof I am wrong. To make it clear, I do not consider a hypothesis or guess a proof.

There is simply not enough time or space here for me to give you a detailed presentation of Luftwaffe camouflage styles and patterns and besides, I see from your other posts that you will never be convinced by any other person's arguments so I'll save myself that trouble, anyway.

I think it is not necessary because you obviously confuse colours, markings and patterns. As long as they are not defined, the discussion is senseless.

What the RLM intended, well they certainly didn't intend the multitude of schemes we see on Bf 109s and Fw 190s from units like II. & III./JG 5, II./JG 3, the whole of JG 54, JG 51 and so on! Find some books on these units and you'll see what I mean.

I understand you reffer mostly to green schemes applied on Northern Front, do not you? Now, please tell me, is there any proof they were not approved by RLM? How can you say there was a multitude of schemes, if it was not established what colours were used?

But that's my point. There's not just a few examples of nose art, tail art and fuselage art. There are hundreds. So your statment is demonstrably wrong - there were lot's of nose art in the Luftwaffe.

On the opposing side we have hundreds of thousands - there is nothing wrong with my statement.
An interesting observation is that most colourful nose-arts appeared rather away from high command. This strongly suggests they were not aproved.

Regarding the colours of the Bf 109F I showed I had them confirmed a few days ago by a former member of the Geschwader. This, in addition to a lot of photographic and documentary evidence leaves virtually no doubt that the base colour was RLM 79 modified with dark green and RLM 75.

Account by a pilot of JG5? Sorry, I have asked just too many pilots and groundcrew about aircraft clolours to consider them reliable source of info. I have heard of a Soviet account mentioning sand Me 109s as well, but still it is no proof for me.
Is the documentary evidence you mention, the one published in the old pdf file? If so, then it shows only your hypothesis, more or less probable but contains no single proof. A period document, a good quality colour photo or a unweathered bit of aircraft is necessary. As long as those are not provided, I am personally going to believe that the scheme never existed.

I have read many of your previous post and "discussions" with other people on this forum, Franek, and it is obvious to me that you have an agenda. A clear anti-Soviet and anti-German historical agenda, that is. I don't know much about Polish aviation so I couldn't say if you distorted and lied or really presented the true picture (I was always willing to give you the benefit of doubt), but when I see what you think you know about Luftwaffe it makes me wonder.

Well, I am not sure what do you mean by agenda, but I may assure you that I am not going to be pro-NS or pro-communist as both regimes/ideologies are rightly considered most criminal ones of XX century. Oh, I am so politically correct and incorrect at one moment!

A last piece of advice before I conclude this "discussion" - try not to be so sure about things you don't know anything about, it actually increases your credibillity!

Just prove, with proofs, that I am wrong. I think nothing more is necessary.