Wasserfall EWM

[John Beaman]

Originally Posted by edwest

Hi Nick,


I'm going to stick with the story. If named pilots saw what they saw, I see no reason to make it up. It appears the W5 was the culprit. And reports could just state "destroyed by flak." Bad enough the Germans put the V-1 and V-2 together. A smaller, mobile anti-aircraft rocket would have been as tough as a V-2 to shoot down.



Ed

Ed: I would not put too much credence to what pilots "saw", especially when it came to the more exotic stuff. How many times have we seen pilots report aircraft that were months away from actual use? On top of that, there's always the 102 claims from the first raid on Lille, when only 2 were damaged. Pilots see a lot of things in the air.

[edwest]

Originally Posted by John Beaman

Ed: I would not put too much credence to what pilots "saw", especially when it came to the more exotic stuff. How many times have we seen pilots report aircraft that were months away from actual use? On top of that, there's always the 102 claims from the first raid on Lille, when only 2 were damaged. Pilots see a lot of things in the air.

John,


I understand. Had this been a one-time incident, I'd be more inclined to doubt but apparently, the officers mentioned knew the difference between a flak shell and something larger. And the Office of War Information had issued guidelines to newspapers about wartime reporting. To me, it is credible to view the article in the following light: multiple sightings means multiple witnesses will be talking about this after the war, so it was reported.

I was incredulous when I heard about the LiSpr80, Lichtsprechgerät 80/80.

Communicating using light?

[Nick Beale]

If the Wasserfall was used operationally then it would have been necessary to constitute a parent Flakabteilung or Regiment, as was done with the V-1. Each launch site used (I believe) two radars, a command post, a generator and radio gear. In that case it should be possible to identify the Abteilungen concerned and possibly their commanders. The radars and other equipment are likely to have been found by Allied Technical Intelligence teams, even if wrecked by their owners. Failing that, personnel associated with the programme

If Allied bombers were on the receiving end, then I would expect there to be mission reports and associated intelligence assessments. The rough location of launch sites would have been known and the likelihood is that a photo-reconnaissance search would have ensued. A quick look at the National Archives catalogue shows Wasserfall files apparently opened in January 1944, so the weapon was clearly an intelligence target.

Given all that, how likely is it that a major development like the use of a guided AA rocket would have missed by historians?

[edwest]

In the excellent but politely dismissed book, T-Force by Sean Longden (ISBN 978-1-84529-727-5), I must have one hundred yellow post-it tags throughout the book. The author identifies "Ken Moore who fought in Normandy with the Royal Artillery before being posted to the 5th Battalion of the King's Regiment, which formed part of the infantry element of T-Force." This gentlemen provided the author "with a vast number of documents" and access to veterans of the unit. He then states his book would examine a subject "that, if I did not write it now, would be lost forever." The group would operate with 30AU, or 30 Assault Unit, later renamed 30 Advance Unit.

One thing worth noting was the looting of captured documents by unidentified British troops. Then there was the incident where little information could be obtained about a German aircraft-delivered torpedo at Houilles because "... the Germans had eliminated all Frenchman known to have any access to it." and Frenchmen who had been working for the Germans were killed or in one case, just disappeared even though he was thought to be in a jail.

Referring to targets in Paris, he writes of "... French scientists who were believed to have played a role in the development of the next generation of German rockets, the so-called V3."

Cologne. "To the north of the city, 30AU captured an 'opportunity target' which was not on the 'black-lists' but was a source of vast intelligence. The factory was producing equipment for use in guided rocket systems, jet- and rocket-propelled aircraft, and chemical fuels." "Just ten days after the operation the Admiralty produced a 300-page book of translations of the seized documents."

"Elsewhere, they arrived at targets only to discover the relevant technolgy had already been spirited away in what Pennycook later described as 'semi-piratical expeditions.'"

"Pitt-Pladdy and 13 Platoon were examining the Wolff shotgun factory, which had been used for making V2 rocket propellant and a product named 'DIGL', a substitute for nitroglycerine..."

"Even more than 60 years after the end of the Second World War, some of the documentation related to T-Force operations in the second half of 1945 remains classified."

"The 'Waterfall' rocket, which had been designed in Germany for anti-aircraft use, played a significant role in future American projects, leading directly to the development of the American Hermes-A1 missile."



Ed

[Pilot]

Nick- as I could seen on one archive movie, missile was visually guided by operator to lacking of the radars could not mean much. For the operation, Waserfall need concrete square with hole under it, how many places like that was found and is there any else way of launching but this only know to me?