II./JG 101

[CJE]

There seems to be some confusion as the origin of part of II./JG 101.

According to Barry Rosch (p. 222), 8., 9. and 10./JG 101 were formed with 4., 5. and 6./NJG 102.
However, on p. 322, he lists the same NJG 102 Staffeln forming 8., 9. and 10./JG 110.
I'd be thankful to anyone who could sort this out.

Chris

[Larry deZeng]

G. Tessin, Verbände und Truppen der Deutschen Wehrmacht und Waffen-SS im Zweiten Weltkrieg, Band XIV, says II./JG 101 was formed 15.10.44 at Landau/Isar by renaming Ausbildungsgruppe 112.

L.

[CJE]

Thanks, Larry.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Chris

Larry is partly correct
Ausbildungsgruppe 112 which was the same as JG 112 became II./JG 101, but since it only had three Staffeln, they became 5. - 7./JG 101

JG 110 was formed (according to Carlsen/Meyer) from BFS 10 on 15 Oct 1943 followed by a II. Gruppe from Jagdlehrerüberprüfungsgruppe in Garz and the III. Gruppe from FFS B.36. If that is correct JG 110 had nothing to do with NJG 102.

Carlsen/Meyer give no indication that II./NJG 102 became anything else. All three staffeln are listed as in use up to 16 March 1945 at Copenhagen (Kastrup). If that is correct then II./NJG 102 could have had nothing to do with the formation of 8.-10./JG 101.

So then what was 8.-10./JG 101? According to Carlsen/Meyer there was an 8./JG 101 formed at Ingolstadt-Manching and that's it. Very little details seems to have survived, which leads me to a somewhat shaky conclusion it was either not formed at all (except on paper) or it was formed very low key.

I thereby think that Rosch is wrong and no 8.-10./JG 101 was formed from II./NJG 102 and that until any further proof that 8./JG 101 really existed, II./JG 101 consisted of only 5.-7. Staffeln. The Gruppe Stab and its three Staffeln were all based at Landau, so why would an 8. Staffel be based at Ingolstadt?

Cheers
Stig

[Larry deZeng]

Excellent detailed analysis from Stig. I have Carlsen/Meyer but gave Chris an abbreviated reply due to lack of time for a deeper and more thorough investigation.

L.

[Matti Salonen]

It seems, that 8./JG 101 really existed:
1944-11-22, 8./JG 101, Bf 109G-6, 163841, 4 blaue, Manching, 7 km südöstlich Ingolstadt, Zusammenstoß in der Luft. Bruch ? %.
1944-11-26, 8./JG 101, Bf 109F-4, Zwischen Geisenfeld, 16 km südöstlich Ingolstadt und Münch-Münster, Zusammenstoß in der Luft mit Bf 109G-6, Werk.-Nr. 163425. Bruch ? %.
1944-11-26, 8./JG 101, Bf 109G-6, 163425, Zwischen Geisenfeld, 16 km südöstlich Ingolstadt und Münch-Münster, Zusammenstoß in der Luft mit Bf 109F-4. Bruch ? %.
1944-12-30, 8./JG 101. Bf 109F-4, 8186, 26 weiße, Zwischen Manching und Geisenfeld, Zusammenstoß in der Luft mit Bf 109G-8, Werk.-Nr. 710056. Bruch ? %.
1944-12-30, 8./JG 101, Bf 109G-8, 710056, 12 weiße, Zwischen Manching und Geisenfeld, Zusammenstoß in der Luft mit Bf 109F-4, Werk.-Nr. 8186. Bruch ? %.
1945-01-09, 8./JG 101, Bf 109G-6, 412644, 10 weiße, Joshofen, 3 km ostnordöstlich Neuburg an der Donau, Unbekannt. Bruch ? %.

Matti

[ouidjat]

Gentlemen,

This all matches with what we can find in Michael Holm' site...
But with a small difference comparing with what is exposed by Sig (Hi Sig!).

I./JG 101 was increased to 4 Staffeln; i.e.
On 15.10.44 a 4.Staffel was created INSIDE I.Gruppe (from 1./JG 112)
and at same date
II./JG 101 with 5. from 2./JG 112 and 6. from 3./JG 112.
7. and 8. being new Staffeln.

Is it better or can one explain and clarify this situation?

Regards, Franck.

[Stig Jarlevik]

First of all, thanks Matti (what would we do without you? )
8./JG 101 did exist, I have now no doubt at all!!

Franck
I never thought about Holm's pages (which I have now looked at). He may well be correct, I don't know, but what speaks against his version are the units bases and commanding dates.

4./JG 101 was quite correctly added to the first Gruppe at Bad Wörrishofen in July 1944. That is logical since the Stab had already been transferred there in June and 2./JG 101 followed in October.

The problem you have when reading Carlsen/Meyer is that they don't bother to give JG 112 a "going over", they combine JG 112 and II./JG 101 on the same page (page 28 in their Band II) and we are left without a clue when the exact unit change took place. Holm is better so checking his site we know that JG 112 only lived for three months and disappeared on 15.10.1944

Now JG 112 and its three Staffeln were all based at Landau when they reformed as II./JG 101. So was 5.-7./JG 101! (Holm seems confused saying II./JG 101 was formed at Götzendorf, but was based at Landau. Makes no sense at all. Carlsen/Meyer speculate that JG 112 was formed one month ahead of what Holm states and was based at Götzendorf June-July 1944)

Logic (but admittedly logic was not always a strong point in Germany during the Third Reich period) then says if
4./JG 101 was formed in July 1944 with a commander named Oblt Horst Ballhause (11.7.1944 to 19.8.1944) that same unit cannot have been formed on 15.10.1944 from 1./JG 112.

All three Staffeln of JG 112 were based at Landau and all three II./JG 101 Staffeln were also based at Landau.

To me, logic would be to create a new Staffel (4./JG 101) at Bad Wörrishofen from "scratch" and let all three Staffeln from JG 112 form 5.-7. JG 101. That is what I would have done. Much more smooth and certainly a lot less effort for both units in question.

So over to anyone who has better/more information than I can provide.

Cheers
Stig

[Larry deZeng]

FWIW, a few additional notes from other sources:

JG 112 was formed with Stab and 1.-4. Staffeln at Landau/Isar in August 1944. Although designated a JG, it was actually a BFS for training single-engine crews. The students were all bomber pilots undergoing conversion for reassignment to fighter units. The Stab was disbanded on 15.10.44 and its Ausbildungsgruppe (presumably 3 or 4 of its Staffeln) became II./JG 101. Last identified in documents at Landau/Isar on 04.10.44.

Mentioned in ULTRA, NARA T-79 roll 14 (list of all units stationed in the Luftgau VII area Aug-Oct 44), in several British Air Ministry air intelligence documents, and in the old Karl Ries book Flugzeugfliegerschulen.

L.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Larry, Larry

Now that I was so certain I had it correct and everything....
I had no idea that there actually was a 4./JG 112, which of course complicate things, and neither did Holm at his page nor Carlsen/Meyer who thoughtfully enough found it reasonable not to list any of JG 111 to JG 117 in detail. Taking into consideration that Carlsen/Meyer never bother to do this make me consider the following.

4./JG 101 was created in July 1944 (Carlsen/Meyer) but was it actually called 4./JG 101 or could it possibly have been 4./JG 112 at that date?

A possible scenario then is this
1./JG 112 became 4./JG 101 or 1./JG 112 became 5./JG 101
2./JG 112 became 5./JG 101 or 2./JG 112 became 6./JG 101
3./JG 112 became 6./JG 101 or 3./JG 112 became 7./JG 101
4./JG 112 became 7./JG 101 or 4./JG 112 became 4./JG 101
8./JG 101 was created new

However again dates bother me. If II./JG 101 was created on 15.10.1944 with 5.-7. Staffeln, why then is 8./JG 101 created already in July 1944?
Since Carlsen/Meyer has so little on this unit, maybe, just maybe the date July 1944 is wrong and perhaps it was not in fact created until October like the rest of the unit. Matti's losses for this Staffel does not begin until November so that sort of supports that theory.

Anyone out there having a loose Staffel which you loose track of during this period which needs a new home as 8./JG 101? Just kidding, but you never know...

Cheers
Stig