Mosquito claim over Rumania on 3 August 1944

[researcher111]

Alex Smart

The P-38 J-20 of 82nd FG lost on Aug 4,1944 in Romania ( Lt.James C.Hardin ) was 44-23210 and belonged to 95th FS
there are no US burial records and it seems eventhough KIA status he's MIA status.

[Graham Boak]

Unfortunately, without other information as back-up the mere existence of any other VVS Mosquitos is just another kind of speculation. They will not have been transferred purely for this event, without evidence elsewhere. If the VVS did operate these two Mosquitos, what else did they use them for? How many more did they have? Why are they not visible in Western records?

Could it be a codeword for a specific mission or other aircraft type, such as the T-6 spotters in the Korean War which were also known as Mosquitos?

[researcher111]

Graham

Basically you are right though unlike in the West the Russians and as we speak haven't declassified much of their
WWII stuff including air personnel info and many of their aerial recon shots. Therefore an indepth analyse will remain difficult.
The mission existed and again I doubt the Lufwaffe pilots had an ID error given the speed and shape of the aircraft.
Lend / Lease is a chapter of its own with many labirints.

[Alex Smart]

Hello,

Hardin's a/c serial number I do not think was 44-23210 as you state.
Reason being that 44-23210 "Jersey Bounce" was lost with 2Lt. Robert W. Black O-763044 on the 20th November '44 over Hungary, 5m S of Brataslava, Hit by flak and on fire blew up on impact with the ground. MACR 9935.

Alex

[Alex Smart]

Hello,

Update re 540 Sqdn's Ops on the 3rd August '44.

Mosquito XVI - MM397 - F/Lt. R.G. Keefer & F/Sgt. R.J.S. Robertson. T/O:1505 - Ret:20.25 - Sighted E/A.
Mosquito XVI - NS525 - F/Lt. G.W. Cotterill & F/Sgt. C.H. Eyre. T/O:10.30 - Ret:13.40.
Mosquito IX - LR422 - F/Lt. W.R. Assheton & F/Sgt. T. Clark. T/O:10.30 - Ret:14.30. Outward,sighted an a/c making trails.
Mosquito IX - LR429 - F/Lt. B.H.P. Templer & F/Sgt. R.K. Somervaille. T/O: 10.10 - Ret 14.25 - Sighted an unidentified a/c on a southerly course.
Mosquito IX - LR429(second Op)- S/Ldr. J.G.Fleming DFC & F/O. H. Clark. T/O: 17.45 - Ret: 21.25.
Mosquito IX - LR406 - F/O. G.E. McDougall & F/O A.J.W. Crofton. T/O: 10.15 - Ret: 15.35.
Mosquito IX - LR427 - W/O K.L. Boyd & F/Sgt. H.R. Read. T/O:10.05 - Ret:13.55 - On return flight sighted an unidentified a/c.
Mosquito XVI - MM360 - F/Lt. F.J.King & F/Sgt. W.T.E.Bowden . T/O:10.00 - Ret: 14.00.

As for the US PRG's (3rd(?) & 5th ) I can offer the following:

Summary of Photo and Weather Reconnassance Missions - August 1944.
23 - F-5 a/c despatched from Eastern Command.
12 - F-5 a/c returned to Eastern Command.
11 - F-5 a/c Continued on to Italy.
9 - F-5 a/c Despatched from Italy and landed in Eastern Command.
18 of the above missions landed in Eastern Command after successfully photographing Enemy installations.
There were NO losses or casualties during the month.

As for the 7th PRG
there were losses.
August
1st - F-5E - 43-29016 - Windsor, Robert D. Killed.
9th - F-5B - 42-67359 - Clark, Albert W. - MACR 7763 - KIA.
12th - F-5B - 42-67319 - Hartwell, Norris E - MACR 7627 - POW.
14th - F-5E - 42-28324 - Smith, Robert R. - MACR 7761 - POW.
14th - F-5E - 43-28331 - Bruns, Waldo C. - MACR 7762 - KIA.
23rd - F-5E - 43-29030 - Wiebe, Glen E. -MACR 8531 - KIA.

Alex

[researcher111]

Alex Smart

You don't think was that Hardin acft s/n was 44-23210 ? ....that's fine with me, I just wanted to help but you are entitled to stick to your opinions and continue the arguments further. Jersey Bounce is something I have no idea of though according " Adorimini " at page 296 (82nd FG History Book ) 44-23210 was this of Hardin , period.

[Alex Smart]

Hello,
The MACR report for Black is available on line at "Flag 3". see attachements below.

Also it is recorded on Craig Fuller's web site .
http://www.aviationarchaeology.com/s...210&Submit6=Go

And on The 82ndfghonor.roll
9935 20-Nov-44 44-23210 Lockheed P-38J-20-LO Lightning Black, Robert W. O-763044 95FS 82FG 15AF KIA Entered the Service from, California, Buried at: Plot A Row 19 Grave 15, Ardennes American Cemetery, Neupre, Belgium, Awards, Air Medal, Purple Heart
And
Also on Accident Report .com
http://accident-report.com/MACR/1944/m194411.html

So not just my opinion but a recorded fact.
Hardin's a/c serial number remains unknown.
The book you mention is quit an "old" history of the 82nd FG.

Alex

[muggs_ro]

Hello all, I looked recently over some romanian reports for the month of August 1944, there is absolutely no match for the date of 3 august, even in Mr. Prien's book if you look at the footnotes at page 2114 it is clearly written "Datum des Einsatzes ungewiss, moglicherweise 3.8.1944"

Please take a look at the the reports below, first two are for the day of 2 august 1944, the romanian report says "Enemy reconnaisance activity between 8,31-10,20 in the areas : W. Consanta, S. Harsova, Galati and the Danube Delta" exact match with the 60th PR report.
Third file is for 3rd august, alarm at Sulina because of aircraft noise and later a strafing by soviet aircraft in Bessarabia. There is also another source of reports with enemy a/c downed over Romania and there is absolutely nothing for the 3rd aug.

Speaking of Riedel, he will be downed one month later on 3.9 by a P-51 southwest of Budak, does anyone have a more exact location ?

[researcher111]

War documents originating from WWII Romania can't be taken as final statement of the events which unfolded overthere in WWII. As an example,a similar war documents citting HALPRO raid in 1942 whereby at least one B-24 was shot down over Romania when in fact no such losses ever occured. If no recon Musquitos were dispatched by VVS out of Karkchov ahead of Frantic task force, possibly the cited event could be then related to this of Aug 2,44 and connected to 60th SAAF SQD

[muggs_ro]

There is absolutely no document that confirms any B-24 downed over Romania during Operation Halpro, stop discrediting when you have no proof, thanks.

Also let's keep this on topic.