Looking for abstracts to von Rohden collection at NARS in the 1960's

[RodM]

attached is the T971 index as an MS Word doc for those interested (the PDF was too large to add as an attachment).

Cheers

Rod

[Larry deZeng]

4376-163
4406-493
4376-323
4376-394
4376-436

Not one of these is listed in the NARA T-971 inventory provided by RodM. This suggests that the 5+ files sought by R.E. may be in the 6 or 7 reels not held by NARA, or they never got microfilmed, or they were possibly misplaced in other NARA T-Microcopies.

L.

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear All,

From the quality of the copies I have, it looks like at least some were likely made from hard copies, not microfilm. As I recall, there was a press to get as much microfilmed before the originals were to be returned to Germany. My vague recollection is that this was supposed to be done by the late 50's, but perhaps it carried over into the 60's and Richard Bateson was lucky to still have access to the originals.

Thanks for showing me where the stones were, Norbert. Your version runs 108 pages and David Isby's runs 102 pages. Why, I don't know. I will check the longer version to see if it has abstracts of the documents I couldn't find in the shorter version.

Dan, yes they contain Me 262 information, but, alas, not Werknummern. Richard's selection of documents was a rather eclectic mix. One nifty one dealt with the end of war fuel situation, including at specific airfields. One or more are clearly postwar write-ups by Germans in the know. One deals with the power play between Göring in the South and Hitler trapped in Berlin in the North. There's a couple that are just compilations of Luftwaffe pilot loss reports, but very early in the war and having absolutely nothing to do with the Me 262. One deals with Luftwaffe strength, a hand written diagram of units and aircraft of each. I'm still trying to get my arms around them. It's probably one reason why I put off trying to file them in the first place.

Oh, and it's only a couple dozen documents in all.

Regards,
Richard

[RodM]

Hi Larry,

all of Richard's file references are listed in the T971 index:

Dec. 22, 1944 – 4376/163
Tarnzahlen für Flugplätze
Code numbers for German air fields.

May 2, 1945 – 4406/493
Unteriagen für lagebeurteilung
Appraisals of the situation pertaining to air forces, readiness for action of air
task forces, “Storch” (German liaison airplane), antiaircraft forces, and
armament as of May 1, 1945.

Sept. 17, 1944 – 4376/323
Gedanken zur Beurteilung der Ausbildungslage
Appraisal of Air Force training as effected by the scarcity of aviation fuel.

June 25, 1943 – 4376/394
Entwicklung der Flugkraftstefflage der deutschen Luftwaffe
Report relating to the development of aviation fuel situation of the German Air
Force. Also statistical data concerning fuel production, on hand, and consumed.

June 1, 1945 – 4376/436a
Vernehmung von Herman Göring
Report, written under the supervision of the US Strategic Air Force and Air
Ministry, concerning a lengthy interrogation of Herman Göring by officers of
the Luftwaffe Vernehmungs Abteilung (German Air Force Interrogation
Section) due to Hitler’s questioning Göring’s personal intentions in conduct of
the aerial warfare and relating to the following matter: 1. allied air power and
the war, 2. the German Air Force, 3. jet propelled aircraft, 4. allied strategic
bombings, 5. the battle for England, 6. the Russian campaign and the Russian
Air Force, 7. Japan, and 8. other campaigns and operations.

Sept. 23, 1944 – 4376/436b
Report by Col. Ottemeyer concerning statutes governing conduct of war and its dogma, presented by examples for World War II.

Richard, the difference in page numbers between the two PDFs - the 102-page PDF contains an index to the first 61 rolls of microfilm, and the 108-page PDF contains the index for the entire 73 roll set. I recall that the 102-page version was the first to be made available as a PDF by NARA, and then some time (months? years?) later it was replaced by the PDF with the complete index.

Regards

Rod

[Larry deZeng]

Very good, Rod. I don't know why I didn't see at least one of them. The file numbers appeared to be in numerical order, so I did not start on page 1 and proceed to the last page. I guess the 5 or 6 files were out of order and that's why I did not see them, or maybe I'm just getting blind. Thanks for straightening this out.

L.

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear Rod,

Thanks for the abstracts. I'd found all but 4376-394, so that is encouraging me that the updated T971 NARA posting may have the others missing in the earlier list. Here's my full list:

4376-163
4406-493
4376-323
4376-394
4376-436
4376-531 Part 1
4376-531 Part 2
4376-531 Part 3
4376-533
4376-581
4376-1176
4376-1161
4376-1080
4376-702
4376-699
4376-653
4376-1214
4376-608
4376-1305
4376-1218
4376-1220
4376-1780
4376-1364
4376-2098
4376-2659
4376-2715
4376-1407

They are listed in the stacked order that I received them from NARS. 4376-531 seems to be a single document - at least I've bound it as such.

Thank you all for your terrific help.

Regards,
Richard

[Dan O'Connell]

Some quite interesting reading there.

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear All,

Actually, in checking, I had been able to find 4376-394 in the shorter list.

Abstracts missing still in either list are:

4376-533
4376-581
4376-1214
4376-608
4376-1364
4376-2098
4376-2659

Some documents will be relatively easy for which to create an abstract, others are very difficult. Hopefully, these seven fall in the former category. I'm also noting document dates or date ranges as I go.

Yes, Dan, an interesting mix, but I'm still wondering just why Richard copied some of them.

Regards,
Richard

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear All,

It's a slow slog going through and trying to find the correct descriptor for each of the 2 dozen von Rohden documents I have. One of the ones I worked on today (4376-1214) deals with the order setting up a special Me 262 unit under Gen. Galland. The order is dated 10.2.45 and is signed by v. Greiff.

It is but a single page, so I transcribed the text, then made an attempt to translate it:

Transcribed text:

"1.) Die durch Umgliederung der IV./JG 54 in eine Me 262 - Jagdgruppe (II./JG 7) freiwerdende 4. Staffel ist geschlossen Gen.Lt. Galland zur Aufstellung einer unter seiner Führung stehenden und dem JG 7 anzugleidernen Jagdstaffel Me 262 zur Verfügung zu stellen.

2.) Organisationsbefehl ergeht durch Gen.Qu.2.Abt."

Rough translation of text:

"1.) By order to organize IV./JG 54 into an Me 262 - Jagdgruppe (II./JG 7) released 4. Staffel is closed Gen.Lt. Galland for establishing a standing under his leadership and the JG 7 to organize Jagdstaffel Me 262 to provide.

2.) Organization order is issued by Gen.Qu.2.Abt."

I used quite a few resources to do the translation, but I'm not happy with the roughness of the first section. Yes, I can get the gist of it, but it would be nicer to have a cleaner translation to go with the document.

Anyone want to give it a try?

Regards,
Richard

[muggs_ro]

I'll give it a go although my German is a bit rusty lately, some of the wording is a bit weird in the provided text.

Adaptation :

Due to the reorganisation of IV./JG 54 in a Me 262 fighter group (II./JG 7) , the now vacant 4th squadron is reserved to Gen.Lt. Galland to create under his command a Me 262 fighter squadron which will also be affiliated to JG 7.