German overclaims in the East. Hartmann and others...

[HGabor]

Folks,

Fw. Erich Pilz (6./SG 10 - Fw 190F) over Hungary in 1944. Not much, only 2, with 50% accuracy.

Date .........Reported AC ..Real victim

16.11.44.....DC-3 ……….....Douglas C-47A, S/N: 42-24140, 4 GvBAK, 5 GvAD DD, gv.k-n Petr Timofeevich Alekseenko's recce. crew at Szeged-NW. (His passenger, commander of 5 GvAD DD, gv.p-k Pavel Ivanovich Kondrat'ev (1899-1944) died of his wounds at No.5202 field hospital later the day.) Plane was delivered to the Soviet Union on August 4, 1943, not to Australia, as it is written in her card. Batch of 15 C-47As: 42-24140 - 42-24154 for $109.663 each.

22.11.44.....Yak-7 ………....Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged. (about 1.5 hrs apart there was a Yak-9T loss in the area in crash-landing. (it was cutting the trees due to engine trouble, pilot was WIA.)

Gabor

[GMichalski]

hi,
sorry about the time of respond, about Duttman the huge claims unconfirmed he had seems suspect or at least curious to me, some of you have were unconfirmed but...... bad, very bad info...

1,11.44 6./JG 52 Lt Yak-9 ostlich Kecskemet E Kecskemet 1402 3500 E N.B N u/c Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged
1,11.44 6./JG 52 Lt Yak-9 nordlich Kecskemet N Kecskemet 1403 2000 E J 117 Yak-1B, S/N: 08175, 5 VA, 6 GvIAD, 73 GvIAP, gv.l-t Andrianov (POW)
1,11.44 6./JG 52 Lt Yak-9 sudsudwestlich Abony SSW Abony 1405 3500 E J 118 Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged
1,11.44 6./JG 52 Lt Yak-9 sudlich Nagykoros S Nagykoros 1406 2500 E J 119 x2 Umlaut
1,11.44 6./JG 52 Lt Il-2 ostlich Kecskemet E Kecskemet 1409 1000 E J 120
7,11.44 6./JG 52 Lt La-5 nordnordostlich Abony NNE Abony 1605 1700 E J 121 Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged
13,1.44 6./JG 52 Lt Yak-11 sudsudwestlich Tapio Szele SSW Tapio Szele 902 4000 E J 122 Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, reported time is 1-2 hrs. wrong!
13,11.44 6./JG 52 Lt Yak-11 sudsudwestlich Tapio Szele SSW Tapio Szele 905 4000 E J 123 Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, reported time is 1-2 hrs. wrong!
13,11.44 6./JG 52 Lt Il-2 nordlich Jaszbereny N Jaszbereny 1220 1500 E J 124 Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, closest reported hr. is 1.5 hrs. apart!
8,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt Yak-3 sudwestlich Aba 3km SW Aba 1624 _____ E N 125 Yak-3, S/N: 310099, 17 VA, 288 IAD, 866 IAP, ml.l-t Yablochkin, KIA
8,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt Yak-3 sudlich Aba 4km S Aba 1627 _____ E N 126 Found no permanent loss, probably just another (damaged) 866 IAP - Yak-3 from the same flight.
9,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt La-5 ostlich Kaloz 12km E Kaloz 1351 _____ E N 127 Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged
9,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt Il-2 ostlich Kaloz 18km E Kaloz 1353 _____ E N 128 IL-2m3, S/N: 11610, 17 VA, 136 ShAD, 210 ShAP, ml.l-t Indyushkin - Krasilnikov crew KIA
11,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt Yak-9 sudostlich Kaloz 6km SE Kaloz 1321 _____ E N 129 Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, reported hr. is too late!
11,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt Yak-9 Szebed SW Szebed 1323 _____ E O.Z N u/c Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, reported hr. is too late!
11,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt Yak-9 Polgardi S.Polgardi 1326 _____ E O.Z N u/c Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, reported hr. is too late!
14,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt Boston nordlich Aba 8km N Aba 1255 _____ E N 130 A-20G-40-DO, S/N: 43-21519, R-2600-23 engines: 43-105954 and 43-105698 at Pálinkaházpuszta, Seregélyes-SW, 17 VA, 244 BAD, 861 BAP (l-t Bahvalov - l-t Mayorov - c-a Zolotov - e-p Solianik crew, all 4 KIA. This soviet Boston has been found, recovered and identified by a nice data-plate just a few years ago. Plane exploded still in the air and remains covered the fields below. Flight of sixteen 17 VA, 861 BAP A-20 Bostons with the cover of only 2 (!) Yaks...)
16,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt Il-2 Pakozd 6km Pakozd 1355 _____ E O.Z N u/c Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, probably from the formation of the 989 ShAP.
16,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt Il-2 Stuhlweissenberg N Stuhlweissenberg 1356 _____ E O.Z N u/c Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, probably from the formation of the 989 ShAP.
16,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt Il-2 sudwestlich Pakozd SW Pakozd 1358 _____ E N 131 Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, probably from the formation of the 989 ShAP.
16,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt Il-2 nordwestlich Pakozd 3km NW Pakozd 1359 _____ E N 132 Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged, probably from the formation of the 989 ShAP.
16,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt Il-2 nordostlich Pakozd 6km NE Pakozd 1401 _____ E N 133 IL-2m3, S/N: 18874124, 17 VA, 136 ShAD, 989 ShAP - ml.l-t Zaharov (WIA) - Iashin (WIA) crew.
18,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt Yak-3 Kaloz SE Kaloz 1405 _____ E O.Z N u/c Jak-3 - No idea. Potential victory, but lack of info. 3 Yak losses this day.
19,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt Il-2 nordwestlich Stuhlweissenberg NW Stuhlweissenberg 1152 _____ E N 134 Found no permanent loss at 11:52, probably just damaged. Many IL-2 losses this day, but all with 2-3 hrs. difference!
19,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt Yak-3 nordlich Stuhlweissenberg N Stuhlweissenberg 1456 _____ E N 135 Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged
19,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt La-5 sudsudwestlich Stuhlweissenberg SSW Stuhlweissenberg 1503 _____ E N 136 La-5FN, S/N: 39211166, 17 VA, 295 IAD, 116 IAP, ml.l-t Ozhiganov (MIA)
20,3.45 5./JG 52 Lt P-51 Veszprem 10km WSW Veszprem 1405 _____ W O.Z N u/c Found no permanent loss, probably just damaged


claims info from Johannes... losses from your info,
see the huge unconfirmed...

regards

[GMichalski]

About other pilots i only say some little info about Thyben, general info in some cases, but gives a relative idea of ​​the claims and Russian casualties:

5,6.44 5./JG 54 Lt La-5 Ostsee 90km nordöstlich Kunda Baltic Sea 90km NE Kunda 1126 4200 E J 44 3 losses, (3 GIAP-KBF. Losses include Kapitan Aleksandr Andreevich Troshin KIA this info from Nick Hector)

10,10.44 7./JG 54 Lt Yak-9 07 653 955 1000 E J 101 Overclaim on Libau only lost two Yak-9 JG54 claimed 4. (Day's Yak losses include Major Ivan Konstantinovich Golovatyuk of 66th GvIAP KIA (believed by JG 54, Kretinga-Memel area) this info from Nick Hector)

10,10.44 7./JG 54 Lt Pe-2 raum 15km südöstlich Libau 15km SE Libau 1015 1200 E J 102 Overclaiming? only 7 Pe-2 lost, JG54 claimed 19!?

30,10.44 7./JG 54 Lt Pe-2 raum 20km südöstlich Libau 20km SE Libau 1158 3800 E J 112 Claimed 15 Pe-2 vs 10 no return
30,10.44 7./JG 54 Lt Pe-2 raum 20km südlich Libau 20km S Libau 1200 1500 E J 113 Claimed 15 Pe-2 vs 10 no return

23,11.44 7./JG 54 Lt Il-2 Rigaischer Meerbusen nordöstlich Windau Gulf of Riga NE Windau 820 10 E J 116 Ltn. Thaler and Thyben claims are correct: 2 Il-2 (35.ShAP 9.ShAD Baltic Fleet Air Forces) shot down

14,12.44 7./JG 54 Lt Il-2 07 632 1216 _____ E N 117 (47th and 8th Guards Assault Regiment lost 13 Il-2 and 11 crew members), including Col. Nelson Stepanyan at 1412 hrs, 8-10km N of Libau (2 x Hero of the Soviet Union). Seven other crews KIA. 10 other IL-2s damaged, 1 Yak-9 and two A-20s lost to flak
14,12.44 7./JG 54 Lt Il-2 07 661 1224 _____ E N 118 (47th and 8th Guards Assault Regiment lost 13 Il-2 and 11 crew members), including Col. Nelson Stepanyan at 1412 hrs, 8-10km N of Libau (2 x Hero of the Soviet Union). Seven other crews KIA. 10 other IL-2s damaged, 1 Yak-9 and two A-20s lost to flak

some bad but also some good....interesting posting

kind regards

[HGabor]

This is good. Note: Stuhlweissenberg (in German) is the city of Székesfehérvár, one of the main areas where the big, 1945 spring battles took place. Area of Germany's very last Panzer (counter)offensive in WWII, - started on March 6, 1945. (This explains the Xtremely high loss-rates in the reports during the month.)

Gabor

[HGabor]

Folks,

Few samples of small, but 100% accuracy claims over Hungary during the long-range, Yugoslav partisan supply-drop missions in 1944:

Fw. Eckart Ulmer's (8./NJG 6) two, 100% victories:

Date ........Reported AC......Real victim:
09/10.08.44. Mitchell ……….....B-25C-15-NA, S/N: 42-32474, tactical: red '12', 5 GvAD DD, 14 GvAP DD, gv.k-n Karakozov crew, 6 KIA. Crashed in a forest between Kismányok and Nagymányok, Hungary.

09/10.08.44. Mitchell ……….....B-25D-30-NC, S/N: 43-3507, tactical: red '4', 5 GvAD DD, 14 GvAP DD, gv.l-t Pchelov crew, 5 KIA. Crashed in a house in Akasztó, Hungary. 1 resident also killed.

Ofw. Josef Federle (8./NJG 6) 100% victory:
Date ........Reported AC......Real victim:
10/11.08.45. Mitchell ……….....B-25D-20-NC, S/N: 41-30612, 5 GvAD DD, 22 GvAP DD, tactical: red '45', gv.p.p-k Galinski crew, 6 KIA/POW/MIA. Crashed on the market place of Martonos, Hungary. (now: Serbia)

...and an overclaim, - no matter what he reported:
Oblt. Wilhelm Johnen's (8./NJG6 Me 110G-4) overclaim:

Date ........Reported AC......Real victim:
10/11.08.44. Mitchell ……….....Overclaim, only damaged near Szolnok, Hungary. 337 AP DD B-25 returned with 75 hits with gv.l-t Fedorov's crew onboard. (See part of long mission-report below. Note it says: Do 217!)

Oblt. Wilhelm Johnen's (8./NJG6 Me 110G-4) 100% victory:

Date ........Reported AC......Real victim:
15/16.08.44. Mitchell ……….....B-25C-15-NA, S/N: 42-32523, 5 GvAD DD, 337 AP DD, tactical: red '71', gv.k-n Kravtsov crew, 5 MIA at Márkusfalva, Hungary. (now: Croatia)

Etc, etc, etc, etc....

Gabor