The Eagles Over Europe Project

[Juha]

Hello SES
there is a mistake in the map that I didn't notice, what is in the map labelled as Bremen is in fact Bremenhaven, so the formation flew according the map in the Shores' book just west of Bremenhaven, continued a bit more to SSSE, then turned to west, then north, flying over Wilhelmshaven, then circled over Jade Bay and then departed to NNW. The first radar contact at 1323 MET was appr. up north from the second eastermost Netherland Frisian Island and appr west of Helgoland. Ie appr. 54*07'N 6*36'E

Juha

[SES]

Hi Juha,
Thanks for the clarification.
bregds
SES

[Marius]

Hello,
many thanks to SES for the last pdf file. As I see the big German overclaiming is clear done.
It makes me believe 10.(N)/JG 26 shot exactly at the same aircraft as II./JG 77. This would explain the lack of confirmation for most victories of Steinhoff`s Staffel.
Can somebody help with personal accounts (or postwar memories) of Johannes Steinhoff, Willi Szuggar, Werner Gerhardt, Martin Portz or August Wilke?

Regards,

[Larry Hickey]

Marius,

I have accounts from several German pilots involved, but none of these.

Regards,

[Marius]

Hello, no problem Larry.
I mean Steinhoff wrote a lot of things after the war. Was there nothing about the 18.12.1939 ???

Regards,

[Marius]

Hello, I analized the Luftgau XI copies a little bit and it seems the aerial victories of 10.(N)/JG 26 have another hours than given in T.Woods or JFV Vol.II.
The question is where the partially incorrect times (14.30,14.30,14.35,14.35,14.35) are coming from ??? Maybe from Heinrich Weiss` manuscript - but isn`t it just an authors speculation ???

According to Luftgau XI it could be the following hours for Steinhoff`s Staffel: 14.30,14.35,14.35,14.40,14.40.
There remains the question what exactly in T.Woods & Prien/Bock lists is documented and what is just a speculation.

Regards,

[Larry Hickey]

Marius,

I fail to see how five minute differences in some of these times makes a material difference in the analysis of the German over-claims on 18.12.39. There could easily be some recording or transcribing errors from one source to another, but it doesn't effect the overall issue of German over-claims during the air battle. Possible transcription errors from one source to another with differences of five minutes don't bring us any closer to understanding what happened from the German point of view. The claims were still made within a very short time-span, whichever source you want to use for the information. This hardly indicates just author's "speculation."

Regards,