"... lazy people should be send to the East(front)...

[Ruy Horta]

Jukka,

Without any context I consider your reaction to be unwarranted and offending.

Consider this to be a warning.

[Boandlgramer]

Originally Posted by kalender1973

Ok, the text in german was some like "... faule Leute schicken nach Osten...".

The conference was in the first quater of 1944. I don't know, that in that time the flying personal was sent to the infantery...

i thought you own the book ?
"faule leute schicken nach osten " is a poor german
please write the german text .

@Jukka Juutinen
i think,Jochen Prien´s explanation was pretty good.

[kalender1973]

Originally Posted by Boandlgramer

i thought you own the book ?
"faule leute schicken nach osten " is a poor german
please write the german text .

It's not excerpt but the sense of Lützow's word. Therefore it is my poor german and not Lützow

@Jukka Juutinen I could not also understand your reaction

[Juha]

Hello kalender1973,
IIRC, and correct me if I remember this wrong, in RAF BC if a pilot was regarded as suffering LMF (lack of moral fibre) he got some sort of punishment and was then often transferred to ground forces.

Regards
Juha

[Graham Boak]

In the RAF personnel judged "LMF" could indeed receive some kind of punishment, usually including demotion and probably transfer to some fairly demeaning duties. This would however be within the RAF. He would not be transferred to some other branch of the armed services, or placed into a combat environment. This would have been judged detrimental to the fighting abilities of any recipient unit. You may be misjudging the term "grounded". This simply means being removed from flying duties, and could be for several reasons other than LMF.

[hihotte]

Gentlemen,
could somebody or Jukka himself explain to me the phrase:"Hannes Heerisms"?

[George Hopp]

In the RAF personnel judged "LMF" could indeed receive some kind of punishment, usually including demotion and probably transfer to some fairly demeaning duties.

Both Graham and my upcoming comments are off-topic, but, I think, of interest. Doug Harvey in his superb book, "Boys, bombs and brussel sprouts," on flying in Bomber Command during the war, was very passionate on this matter: "Faced with what they figured impossible odds, many aircrew simply quit. It was rare for an entire crew to quit but nearly every crew had one member pack it in. Panic-stricken lest the refusal to fly became endemic, Bomber Command reacted with ferocious cruelty against those unfortunates. Each was immediately stripped of his rank and banished overnight to an Aircrew Refresher Training Centre. In reality this was a punishment camp where the kid's spirit was destroyed. Everyone who had the courage to march into the CO's office and say, "That's it. I quit. I can't fly anymore," was branded with the tag, Lack of Moral Fibre or LMF as it was universally known. This was the most loathsome expression the RAF could find for a man who had, to them, failed in the face of the enemy. To the everlasting shame of the RCAF, this stupid and inhuman practice was adopted without hesitation and was applied with great vigour that winter (1943-1944). Despite the stigma and the immediate, horrible consequences, a kid who could no longer force himself into his bomber simply said, "I will not fly again, no matter what you do to me." ....

"I lost two crew members who could not continue to fly operations any longer. One was Ray, our wireless operator, who baled out on his sixth trip, preferring prisoner of war confinement to the known horrors of flying ops. The other, Harry, our flight engineer, couldn't continue past seven trips and decided to ground himself. All of our crew were concerned, but no one was critical or anything but sympathetic and understanding. Both Ray and Harry had worked hard, and I considered them very capable airmen, but they simply couldn't endure the strain of operational flying. Nothing difficult to understand. Nothing dishonourable in my eyes. They had certainly tried. The mistake, if one was made, lay with the initial aircrew standards board that had selected them for flying duties."

The book from which the above quote was taken, is, in my estimation, the very best book I have ever read on the life of one pilot flying off his tour in Bomber Command.

Now, if an aircrew trainee failed out during his courses, he could be sent to the army, but because of the money already spent on his training, usually he ended up in another air force trade.

[Juha]

Graham, thanks for the correction.

Juha