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Luftwaffe and Axis Air Forces Please use this forum to discuss the German Luftwaffe and the Air Forces of its Allies. |
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#1
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Fw Werner Nickel, 12./JG 54, 1 April 1944
Hello,
70 years ago, Fw Werner Nickel of 12./JG 54 was wounded by Flak. He was flying the Bf 109 G-6 WNr 411415 according to Rosipal's losslist, where it is listed with an unknown damage percentage. The place listed for the loss is Schopsni. The Luftwaffe losses summary shows for this day an aircraft destroyed by Flak for IV./JG 54 and none damaged by Flak (another was damaged by enemy aircraft and a third shot down by enemy aircraft, but they did not appear in Rosipal's losslist, so I guess the pilots were unhurt), so I guess that the Bf 109 G-6 411415 was destroyed/damaged beyond repair. I will be interested to confirm that this aircraft was lost, and to locate where it was lost, if someone has a more detailled location or knows where "Schopsni", probably mistyped by a German clerk, is. Thanks in advance |
#2
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Re: Fw Werner Nickel, 12./JG 54, 1 April 1944
The VLM does not list the reason for the damage and wounds. I have no idea where Rosipal got that info from. There are many more errors in the Rosipal list. My best guess would be that the a/c was damaged.
John |
#3
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Re: Fw Werner Nickel, 12./JG 54, 1 April 1944
Thanks John,
I agree that the Rosipal list is now well outdated, and has many errors (but is more often correct than not), this is why I am trying to confirm its data with other sources. But sometimes like this one, you can just wonder from where the data comes from... Best regards |
#4
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Re: Fw Werner Nickel, 12./JG 54, 1 April 1944
Hello, Laurent
Looking at the summary loss records, I can see that IV./JG 54 reports the following losses for April 1st 1944: 1 aircraft total loss (60% - 100%) due to Bordwaffenbeschuß (enemy aircraft gunfire), the landing/crash observed by the enemy, reported in the GenQu 6 Abt report of April 5th 1 aircraft damaged (10% - 59%) due to Bordwaffenbeschuß (enemy aircraft gunfire), the landing/crash observed by the enemy, reported in the GenQu 6 Abt report of April 5th 1 aircraft total loss (60% - 100%) due to Flakbeschuß (ground based anti-aircraft gunfire), reported in the GenQu 6 Abt report of April 6th In these three incidents there was only one personnel injury involved, for the loss reported in the GenQu 6 Abt report of April 6th a non-officer was injured (verletzt) - the incident due to Flak. Thus a NVM should exist for this incident, and that is possibly where Rosipal got his info. Matti usually turns up with some NVM info by now :-) And if it does not exist there is a relatively large chance that a correction was filed where the pilot was listed as unverletzt (no injuries sustained) - in that case Fw. Stiemerling as the responsible for Arbeitsgebiet 3 . Bearbeitung der namentlichen Verlustmeldungen Vordruck II der fliegende Einheiten an Hand der Abstreichlisten sowie Berichtigungen aus Vordruck II - would take care of the correction and destroy the erronous NVM (Vordruck II). Regards, Andreas B
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Ahhh... but I have seen the holy grail! And it is painted RLM 76 all over with a large Mickey Mouse on the side, there is a familiar pilot in front of it and it has an Erla Haube! Last edited by Andreas Brekken; 4th April 2014 at 13:17. Reason: Additional info |
#5
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Re: Fw Werner Nickel, 12./JG 54, 1 April 1944
Yes, there is a NVM, but unfortunately it doesn't reveal exact location or damages. I read the location as Schopani, but cannot find even that name anywhere. Because IV/JG 54 was at that time in Baltic, the location might be in Estonia or maybe in Latvia.
Based on Andreas' info, the damages should be 60 - 100 %, i.e. total loss. Here is all I have from the NVM: 1944-04-01, 12./JG 54, Bf 109 G-6, 411415, Schopani, Flakbeschuß. Bruch ? %. Flugzeugführer Fw Nickel, Werner, verletzt Matti |
#6
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Re: Fw Werner Nickel, 12./JG 54, 1 April 1944
There is an Щепаны (Shchopany) in Belarus: 54° 29' N, 26° 09' E.
Regards Rasmussen |
#7
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Re: Fw Werner Nickel, 12./JG 54, 1 April 1944
Thanks Andreas and Matti,
from the existing data, we have a Bf 109 G-6 of 12./JG 54 destroyed/damaged beyond repair by Flak with pilot wounded, and a pilot wounded by Flak aboard Bf 109 G-6 WNr 411415, so there is a strong probability that these are the same. As for the location, I can't find Schopani either (or Shopani, or Chopani). According to the Holm's website, IV./JG 54 was based in Lemberg since the 29th of March. This city is called Lvov in Poland (and belonged to it before 1939) and Lviv in Ukraine (of which it is now a part). To complicate matters, in WWII times Russian names were also used in Ukrain, and have changed since (even if I don't know if this applies to a place so west). So "Schopani" is probably in this area, but whether it is a German, Polish, Russian or Ukrainian version, it is probably no more used on modern maps. ![]() |
#8
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Re: Fw Werner Nickel, 12./JG 54, 1 April 1944
Rasmussen, I missed your post. This place could be the one, but on 1 April 1944 was well behind the frontline.
12./JG 54 was based at Petseri, in Estonia, until 26 March and then supposedly moved to Lemberg with the rest of the group. The Bielorussia location might be the right one if this fighter was fired at and hit by partisans. So far I have only known of such partisan kills against transports. I have spent some times this afternoon studying the front war in early April 1944, thinking that maybe a place name close to Schopani will appear. While I have learned a lot about this period (close to Lvov/Lemberg, there was heavy fighting at Brody (NE), Tarnopol (E) and in the Kamenets-Poldosky pocket (SE)), I have had no success to find a location with such a name. |
#9
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Re: Fw Werner Nickel, 12./JG 54, 1 April 1944
Allright, checked the VLM again. Injuries (minor) were reported as "Kopf A.G." the last mean Artilleriegeschoss -> meaning Flak.
Location is given as "Schapani, Dülaoko b. Markarow"...can anyone pinpoint that to a exact location? He was treated in Krankenrevier Fl.H.Dorpat, meaning that he must have crashed not for from that a/f. Cheers, John |
#10
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Re: Fw Werner Nickel, 12./JG 54, 1 April 1944
Hi, all.
Dorpat is Tartu, Estonia. The additional info should help. Regards, Andreas B
__________________
Ahhh... but I have seen the holy grail! And it is painted RLM 76 all over with a large Mickey Mouse on the side, there is a familiar pilot in front of it and it has an Erla Haube! |
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