Allied loss locations in 1939

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hello,

I have several Allied losses in 1939 whose loss location is very general, and I wonder if recent research (for example by the Eagles over Europe project) has enabled to find a more precise location.

Here is a first list, for RAF losses:
8-9 September 1939: Whitley III K8950, "Kassel area"
20 September 1939: Battle K9242, "Sarrebourg area"
28 September 1939: Blenheim N6206, "Osnabrück area" or "German Bight" (probably the latter)
1 October 1939: Blenheim N6231, "Bad Bridurg area"
13 October 1939: Blenheim N6160, ?

Thanks in advance

[paulmcmillan]

for K8950 "Shot down by Flak over Thuringia, crashing near Kassel, Germany"

N6231 I have 5 km N of Petershagen, Germany

[borborygm]

The Battle K9242 is quoted on this site as lost at 14 km sw from Sarreguemines

[Peter Cornwell]

Laurent, More precise locations (where known) from current EOE listings:

20 September 1939 BRITISH AIR FORCES IN FRANCE 88 Squadron, Mourmelon Battle K9242. Severely damaged by Bf109s during reconnaissance sortie over the German frontier and crash-landed on fire at Juvelize, west of Sarrebourg. Probably that claimed by Lt Kurt Liedke of 5./JG53 over Bitsch 10.46 a.m. (Pilot) Flying Officer R. C. Graveley badly burned - evacuated to RAF Halton Hospital, (Obs) Sergeant William Stanley Everett severely wounded - leg amputated but died same day, (WOp) AC1 David Joshua John killed. Aircraft a write-off.

13 October 1939 Bomber Command 114 Squadron, Wyton Blenheim IV N6160. Shot down 3km south-west of Duisburg by Lt Kurt Kirchner of 1./JG 52 during reconnaissance sortie 1.40 p.m. (Pilot) Pilot Officer Kenneth George Sheldon Thompson, (Obs) Sergeant George Walton Marwood and (WOp) AC2 Alexander Lumsden all killed. Aircraft a write-off.
This aircraft took-off from Villeneuve-les-Vertus in France having arrived there from Wyton the previous day. The squadron was not based in France as part of the AASF until early December.

Paul, I would be grateful to learn the source of your location for N6231. Currently we carry it thus:

1 October 1939 Bomber Command 139 Squadron, Wyton Blenheim IV N6231. Shot down over Bad Driburg, east of Paderborn, by Oberlt Walter Adolph (Staffelkapitän) of 2./JG1 during daylight reconnaissance sortie over north-west Germany 1.10 p.m. (Pilot) Flying Officer A. C. MacLachlan captured, (Obs) Sergeant William Brown and (AG) AC2 Ronald Victor Britton both killed. Aircraft a write-off.

I./JG1 are known to have been operating in this area at that time rather than further south and I suspect possible confusion between Bad Driburg and Bad Rehburg which is about 5km NE of Petershagen.

[paulmcmillan]

Peter

Oh what a tangled weave....

Firstly

The Times November 3, 1939 quotes

"F/O Allan Colin MacLachlan of Wolverhampton who was reported missing a month ago, is safe in a German Hospital, suffering from minor injuries. His parents yesterday received a letter from him written from a Hanover hospital. He said that he had jumped out of the aeroplane and had landed by parachute. He added that the Germans had been very kind to him, and that he could not have been better looked after in an English hospital. "

My actual source is Air 81/25 it says "Flying Officer A C MacLachan: prisoner of war. Aircraftman 2nd Class R V Britton and Sergeant W B Brown: report of deaths; Blenheim N6231 shot down near Petershagen, 1 October 1939"

http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ls/r/C14142108

Now I know not conclusive but more likely to be in Hanover hospital if in Bad Rehburg region (approx. 1 hour away) rather than Bad Driburg (approx. 2 hours away) - Could it be interception occurred at Bad Driburg but crash happened further north

Air 81/25 should give accurate information on crash location, but I have not got a copy of it


Also some info on MacLachlan's injuries

Auckland Star, Volume LXX, Issue 275, 21 November 1939, Page 7
PILOT SAFE.
IN GERMAN HOSPITAL.
Young Wife Receives Letter From Husband.
LUCKY TO BE ALIVE."
(Special.—By Air Mail.)
LONDON, November 3. One of the first letters home from a British prisoner of war has reached this country. It came from a 24- year-old R.A.F. pilot, Flying-Officer Allan Colin MacLachlan, now in hospital in Hanover, to his young wife, who lives in Newhampton Road West, Wolverhampton.

MacLachlan, escaped by parachute from his blazing machine during a reconnaissance flight over German territory during the last few days of September. The letter. which was posted on October 13. reads: "I am very pleased to be able to say that I am very well. "My face is a bit burnt from the aeroplane before I jumped and landed safely by parachute. I have no eyebrows or eyelashes any more, but the doctor thinks they will grow again soon. And just to add to my beauty, when jumping out I must have bitten my lip so hard that I took a piece out of my lower lip and split a front tooth from top to bottom, and that had to come out.

"Still, I am very lucky to be alive. I hope earnestly that you have read news that I am safe before this. I spoke into a record-making machine telling you that I was safe, and the German people assured me that you would know very soon through the neutral Press. '"They are being very kind. I could not have been better looked after in a hospital in England." MacLachlan's father said: "'This letter is the first we've heard since October 1, when we were officially informed that my so was missing. Evidently when he spoke into a microphone in Germany he thought his voice would be put on to the radio."

MacLachlan, a former Tettenhall College boy has been in the R.A.F. just over three years.

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Hello,

First thanks to those who replied.

The idea of using AIR 81 is interesting, but it does not seem to be 100% reliable: for example, AIR 81/9 is about the crew of Whitley K8950 that is shown as force landed in Belgium, while it really crashed near Kassel, Germany, with the whole crew POW.

[paulmcmillan]

I think the answer is you have to need to read contents of the AIR 81 file not just the headers (which may only give a partial info) to see the physical location (if found) to be 100% sure. But if EOE can get access to Air 81/25 then the true location for the crash can probably be determined

Dear All,

I am Allan Colin (known as Colin)MacLachlan's granddaughter & am over joyed to be reading your information that you have about him. He was the first man from Wolverhampton shot down & spent the duration of the war in various POW camps including Stalag Luft III of Great Escape & Wooden Horse fame.

I understood that he was shot down just outside Hanover and taken to a hospital there. We have photographs of the wreckage & of him holding a handkerchief to his badly burnt face as he walks away from it. I was also told that the German who shot him down visited him in hospital & they chatted; he'd studied at Cambridge & grandad had learnt German at school.

Cosford Air Museum have Grandad's uniform & various other items that may help you in your search for information, I know that there is a flight log of Grandad's too.

Thank you for remembering him.