Flugplatz Krissicha

[oquaig]

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

Is Krissicha a Flugplatz and do you have a date when II./JG 53 was there? I will see what I can find out later today.

There are 4 or 5 places in Latvia and 1 or 2 in Lithuania that begin with the letter “Kris…..” But there is none in Estonia.

Possibly Krzewica/70 km W of Brest?

L.

The Dates they were "there" (Krussischa, Krissicha, Cazucher, Kraciai...) 19 July to 26 July. The source I have says they were in Estonia, but I am beginning to think they were just having us on and were really in a bar in Biarritz getting hammered.

[Larry deZeng]

...............or in Marseille getting tattooed and massaged, if ya' git mah drift.

[oquaig]

I just read an account about II./JG 53 being bombed on Sarudinye (Zaruden'ye) airfield and losing 6 Bf 109fs on 22 July 1941. As I do not entirely trust this source (especially since it is not referenced) I was wondering if anyone could confirm this event ? Or not.

[andrus]

If we read Prien carefully, then Estonia is wrong place to look. We have:

1. one claim from 21.July for 4./JG 53 with location "NO Dno"
2. text on page 122: "wobei Ortsnamen wie Nowgorod, Luga, Šoltzy, Staraja-Russa und Dno die Schwerpunkte markieren."

IMHO all these places are too far from Estonia for single-engined fighters.

So probably better place to look for Krussicha is Porkhov-Dno-lake Ilmen area?

[oquaig]

Originally Posted by andrus

If we read Prien carefully, then Estonia is wrong place to look. We have:

1. one claim from 21.July for 4./JG 53 with location "NO Dno"
2. text on page 122: "wobei Ortsnamen wie Nowgorod, Luga, Šoltzy, Staraja-Russa und Dno die Schwerpunkte markieren."

IMHO all these places are too far from Estonia for single-engined fighters.

So probably better place to look for Krussicha is Porkhov-Dno-lake Ilmen area?

Actually I was looking through the Jim P list for claims by II./JG 53 yesterday. Unfortunately of all the claims made by them for mid July 1941, the claim for “NE Dno” is the only one that gives a location. That drew my attention to the fact that if they are intercepting VVS aircraft over Panzer Group 4, they can't be in Estonia as they would be flying away from their sector. I don't have access to Prien's books so I rely on people like you for that information (thank you for that by the way). This is why I ask about the Zaruden'ye raid and the accuracy of the account because if it is true, then we have the location of II./JG 53.

[Larry deZeng]

Are the Prien references here all from his "new" 192-volume series that have the blue or green covers? Has anyone check his 3-volume history of JG 53:

Prien, Jochen. Pik-As: Geschichte des Jagdgeschwaders 53. 3 Teile (volumes). Eutin: Struve-Druck, c. 1989-90. Teil 1(Aufstellung des Geschwaders-Vorkriegszeit-Sitzkrieg-Frankreichfeldzug-Einsatz gegen England-Russlandfeldzug-Holland-Einsatz gegen Malta: März 1937 – Mai 1942). Teil 2 (Mai 1942 bis Januar 1944, ISBN: 3-923457-14-6). Teil 3 (1943-1945, ISBN: 3-923457-16-2). Hb (oversize). Dj. 1,721p. Heavily illus. Maps. Dwgs. Tables. Numerous appendices incl. loss and victory lists. Name index.

If this has not been look at yet, let me know.

L.

[Larry deZeng]

Well, I guess I'll have to answer my own question here. The single Prien page citation in this thread is in Post #6, above, and it's from Prien's new Jagdwaffe series. Below are the references to II./JG 53 for July 1941 as taken from Prien's 3-volume work on JG 53 written 25 years ago:

Prien - JG 53/Teil I

1-2 Jul 41: II./53 operating from Kreuzburg but there was little action. (p.354)
4 Jul 41: 5. St. lost Uffz. Reipert in the area N of Ostrow. (p.354)
5 Jul 41: II./53 transferred to Alt-Schwanenburg. (p.357)
7 Jul 41: II./53 in evening dogfight with several Soviet bombers – location not given. (p.358)
8 Jul 41: II./53 flew evening freelance patrols in the Ostrow area, losing Ofw. Margstein from 4. St. who crashed in a field along the Ostrow-Porchow road after failing to bale out.
10 Jul 41: II./53 transferred to Kerpova. (p.360)
10 Jul 41: II./53 scrambled in late morning and intercepted 4 SB-2 bombers that were inbound to attack their field at Kerpova.
15 Jul 41: II./53 scrambled and claimed 3 attacking Russian bombers over the Gruppe’s airfield.
16 Jul 41: II./53 lost two of its aircraft on the ground when enemy bombers attacked the Feldflugplatz Korowje-Selo. (p.374)
18 Jul 41: II./JG 53 transferred to Krussicha in Estonia. Here the Gruppe found bad weather so operational activity was minimal. (p.377)
19 Jul 41: II./53, still dealing with bad weather, nevertheless flew missions in the Staraya Russa area. (p.377)
20-25 Jul 41: II./53 flew freelance sorties in the Staraya Russa area. (p.382)
26 Jul 41: the II. Gruppe received orders to get the aircraft ready for a transfer to Germany and this was carried out over the following days. While the pilots and planes returned to Germany, the ground personnel moved to Porchow where they participated in sports and did exercises until 6 August. (p.382)

So II. Gruppe's last base before leaving for Germany was Krussicha in Estonia. There were two airfields at Dorpat (Tartu), one on the NE side of town and the other on the SW side of town. One was the main airfield and the other was a Hilfsflugplatz (auxiliary airfield). A careful search around the environs of Tartu for the name "Krussicha" came up empty.

L.

[oquaig]

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Originally Posted by oquaig

I just read an account about II./JG 53 being bombed on Sarudinye (Zaruden'ye) airfield and losing 6 Bf 109fs on 22 July 1941. As I do not entirely trust this source (especially since it is not referenced) I was wondering if anyone could confirm this event ? Or not.

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

10 Jul 41: II./53 transferred to Kerpova. (p.360)
10 Jul 41: II./53 scrambled in late morning and intercepted 4 SB-2 bombers that were inbound to attack their field at Kerpova.
15 Jul 41: II./53 scrambled and claimed 3 attacking Russian bombers over the Gruppe’s airfield.
16 Jul 41: II./53 lost two of its aircraft on the ground when enemy bombers attacked the Feldflugplatz Korowje-Selo. (p.374)
18 Jul 41: II./JG 53 transferred to Krussicha in Estonia. Here the Gruppe found bad weather so operational activity was minimal. (p.377)
19 Jul 41: II./53, still dealing with bad weather, nevertheless flew missions in the Staraya Russa area. (p.377)
20-25 Jul 41: II./53 flew freelance sorties in the Staraya Russa area. (p.382)

L.

Thanks Larry, I was right not to trust that other source. That particular author has a tendency to conflate facts and get a little creative with history. II./JG 53 did suffer losses on the airfield just at a different time and place.

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

There were two airfields at Dorpat (Tartu), one on the NE side of town and the other on the SW side of town. One was the main airfield and the other was a Hilfsflugplatz (auxiliary airfield).

Tartu Airport – Ulenurme – Reola whatever one wants to call it, I did not know until now that it was an airfield in 1941. The history of the airport does not mention its origins. Just for the sake of argument, let's say they were here. Is Staraya Russa really too far away for them to operate ? It is 225 km away. The 4th SAD was based there, LVI Panzer Corps was still withdrawing from its encirclement at Soltsy and the VVS was making a major effort in support of their attack on LVI Corps. Maybe the flying weather was better there. Then, the weather conditions in the area of central Estonia in general and Tartu in particular:


“On that day (14 July) the good summer weather was replaced by rain and thunderstorms, worsening the road conditions and hampering operations...” - Baltic Review No.9 Vol.1/2003 (pg.178)


This seems to confirm the weather conditions.


Last, Krussicha may not be a town village or hamlet, it may just be nick name given to an unfamiliar place...there is no town of Korowje-Selo (literally “cow pasture” in Russian) so maybe Krussicha is “крушение” (plane wreck).

[Larry deZeng]

Oquaig -

Korowje Selo (RUSS) (e. Korovye Selo; a.k.a. Rozhkopol’ye, Raskopolye) (57 33 N – 28 17 E)
General: landing ground in NW Russia 28 km S of Pskov. Measured 1000 x 1000 meters.
Remarks:
16 Jul 41: bombed – 2 x Bf 109 F-2s from II./JG 53 destroyed on the ground.

This landing ground was about 184 km WSW of Staraya Russa. I don’t know the range of the Bf 109F so I can’t determine if distance was a factor here. The main occupant of Korowje Selo during the second half of July 1941 was KG 76, the first elements of which arrived on 19 July.

This is just speculation, but it is increasingly likely that II./53 was using Korowje Selo as an Ausweichsflugplatz that missions were launched from while the Gruppe's rear echelons remained back at Krussicha until they could effect a full transfer. This is a tiny detail that Prien may have missed. There is/was a road from Korowje Selo to Porkhov.

L.

[oquaig]

Originally Posted by Larry deZeng

This is just speculation, but it is increasingly likely that II./53 was using Korowje Selo as an Ausweichsflugplatz that missions were launched from while the Gruppe's rear echelons remained back at Krussicha until they could effect a full transfer. This is a tiny detail that Prien may have missed. There is/was a road from Korowje Selo to Porkhov.

Thanks for that Larry.

Your speculation makes a lot of sense. Consider that 18 Army launched an attack north of lake Vornu to encircle the Soviets at Tartu from the north on 17 July. It had already begun to rain on the 14th but the rain was so heavy at times that the attack was halted on 19th. On the 14th LVI Panzer Corps is encircled at Soltsy so all air support was committed to help them out. The VVS made a major effort here. The weather was clear and hot (32 C). So it is logical to pull II./JG 53 back to Korowje Selo rather than just let them sit in the rain. Now XLI panzer Corps had taken two bridge heads on the Luga river on 14 July and were attacked heavily by the VVS from the 14th to the 18th of July, during those 4 days they recieved no Luftwaffe air support. Again the weather here was clear and hot, so I am assuming the encirclement of LVI Panzer corps drew the bulk of FliegerKorps I's efforts.