He 111K engages Blenheims 3 Nov 40

[andy bird]

On 3 November 1940 three Blenheim's of 248 Squadron based at Sumburgh are scramble at 10.11 (ORB) or 10.00 (Form 541) at 11.45 they all engage a single He 111K from Sola. Aerial combat ensues, He 111K reaches cloud cover, it is then spotted cloud hoping with dense smoke coming from port side. Two Blenheim fighters returned to Sumburgh at 12.55 the third L9392 did not make it back.

This third British aircraft G/248 was last seen during the second attack by McHardy.

Is there any record in the KTBs of this incident for KG 26. Unfortunately lost my copies for Norway due to a external hard drive being stollen.

Hope someone may be able to help

Kind Regards

Andy Bird

[Chris Goss]

I think the subject of KTBs for KG 26 was asked recently-no longer with us

[andy bird]

Okay, shame
thanks Chris

[Bruce Lander]

From "Battle of Britain The Forgotten Months" by John Foreman:-
the 3 Blenheims from 248 Sq were piloted by F/O McHardy, P/O Atkinson and P/O Garrad, the aircraft flown by P/O H.A.A.Garrad FTR and the He.111 claimed as damaged in fact crashed at Hevdland with Uffz Josef Mendler and 3 crew being killed it was He.111 H-3 W.Nr. 3171 of I/KG26

[Chris Goss]

There are a number of reasonable assumptions in this book & all depends on where Hevdland is in relation to the 248 Sqn combat

[andy bird]

Bruce,

Superb, appreciate the information.

Kind Regards

Andy Bird

[Peter Cornwell]

I have the MENDLER crew listed as lost on the following day, 4 November 1940, thus:

2./KG26 Heinkel He111H-3 (3171). Crashed and burned out at Skjørestadfjell, near Sandnes, south-east of Stavanger-Sola airfield, on return from sortie; cause unknown. FF Uffz Josef Mendler, BO Oberfw Otto Stuckmann, BF Uffz Erhard Reisch, and BM Uffz Wilhelm Zeckey all killed. Aircraft 1H+HK 100% write-off.

This date is confirmed by the NVM, the QMG Returns, & the VDK database. So no connection with the He111 engaged by No.248 Squadron as cited by FOREMAN.

Similarly, McNEILL in his excellent Coastal Command Losses credits the loss of L9392 to Uffz Richard WOICK of 7./JG54 who did claim a Blenheim but off Katwijk-aan-Zee at 18.28 (CET) hours. Given the reported time & location, I am having difficulty reconciling this with an aircraft that took-off from Sumburgh at 10.11 (GMT) hours ?

[Chris Goss]

Now got access to my records. Combat on 3 Nov 40 was 1146 hrs Rattray Head H damaged, G missing. He 111 probable. Next day Hudson Z/269 Sqn claimed a He 111 probable at 1550 hrs east of the Shetlands, ac damaged and nav wounded. As I said, there are a number of assumptions which should be checked thoroughly first!

[Stig Jarlevik]

Peter/Chris

The pertinent question is to me what 248 Sq ORB says (if anything) regarding the orders received by the the three Blenheim crews.

According to Foreman they were patroling the North Sea, which is quite a large area. However I don't believe that aircraft from Stavanger area attacking the British northern Islands and perhaps northern Scotland pass over the North Sea (maybe they just touch it?)

At this point in time 248 Sq was based at Bircham Newton which is nowhere near Scotland or northern England but well based (if not excellent) to patrol the more eastern/south eastern coastal area of England. It should also be noted that III./JG 54 was based almost opposite along the Dutch coast line.

So to my mind whatever He 111 they intercepted that day was much more likely to be an aircraft from mainland Europe rather than Norway.

Again according to Foreman, Uffz Woick made his claim at 14.10H while Prien says just like Peter 18.28H. I am not sure what Foreman is trying to do here since he also claims that 248 Sq did its patrol during the mid-afternoon. Possibly he is trying "his best" to find a solution to the loss of one Blenheim and also a victory claim of one Blenheim from the German side.

I can to a certain point understand Foreman since we either have a scenario where one Blenheim is last seen chasing a He 111 which presumably at this point is going full speed back 'home' at around noon British time (13.00H German time) and possibly gets shot down by return fire, and a German claim much, much later basically into thin air since we don't have any relevant British loss/damaged aircraft. Since it seems Woick's claim was accepted and he then must have had witnesses to his claim, he must have chased at least something and the question is what?

Since I believe we can rule out Foreman's scenario completely, there are basically three roads to follow
a) There was in fact a British patrol/attack at this time (17.28H GMT/18.28H German time). No losses, but the Germans still believed they had shot down one aircraft.
b) The German stated time is wrong
c) The claim is a total fabrication from a very junior pilot making his second claim on this day, supported by witnesses etc.(unless this claim also belongs to another day entirely....)

Cheers
Stig

[andy bird]

Chris, Peter, & Stig,

Herewith ORB for 3rd November 1940

Regards

Andy Bird

248 Ops:

09:06 Sgt Fripp T/248 takes off, together with K/248 and R/248 on a S.A.I.E Patrol. T/248 to patrol middle track.

T/248 - 0905/QSWT 4155/360/180 MPH. A/C sighted believed to be a JU88. E/A went across tail 2,000 ft, above at distance of 1000 yards. Pilot turned towards direction of e/a but disappeared into cloud. % value 80. Good 9/10 - 12000ft 50 miles

T/248 Lands at 11:01

10:11 P/O 'Sam' McHardy Z/248, H/248 P/O Gordon Atkinson, G/248 P/O Anthony Garrard, scramble 'On Search for enemy aircraft on a Square Search PCQC 5730'

Z/248 - 1146/PCQC 4344/090T saw He 111K Mk V.A. near sea level 4,000 ft below. [Ordered attack, formation went into line astern - McHardy's Diary] After a beam and quarter attacks as well as from astern by three aircraft, during which tracers were seen to enter e/a, and dense smoke appeared. E/A obtained cloud cover, but was later seen by Atkinson of H/248 diving steeply towards the sea with dense smoke pouring from it as it went into cloud base near sea, and a large piece of black material come from port side. Aircraft H/248 circled over sea, but saw nothing.

Enemy a/c rear guns replied several times, once with cannon fire resulting in no damage, to aircraft Z/248, but H/248 received bullet hole in oil cooler which removed cowling gills. Z & H/248 returned independently to base, but aircraft G/248 failed to return and it was last seen making second attack on enemy aircraft.

G/248 and H/248 Land 12:55

10:30 J/248, C/248 take off. On Square Search for enemy aircraft between positions PCQG 5730 - PCMA 5740 PCMA 3740 - PCQG 3530 - search completed nothing sighted.

J/248 and C/248 Landed 12:08/09

Three hours later a search is tasked:

K/J/H Take Off 15:10/11 'On Search For G/248'

Search made over area QSVD 0505 XZQG 4729 - PCWT 2011. PCWT 3835 with out result. Good visibility allowed whole area to be covered.

K/J/H Land at 17:15

Form 540: Written up at 16:00 Five a/c took off at about 10:00 hours on enemy aircraft interception patrol. An e/a was sighted by these and attacked by all three. It is believed the aircraft was shot down. Aircraft G/248 with crew Garrard, Bayliss and Moynham failed to return. At 15:00 hours three aircraft were sent out to try and trace G/248, but without results.