Help with Ju 88 & Wappen

[Richard Mills]

Can anyone help with the identification of the Wappen on this Junkers Ju 88?

Also, is it possible to identify the mark of Ju 88 from the image shown?

As always, any help whatsoever will be very well recieved.

Regards Richard.

[Chris Goss]

I have been sent a copy of this photo from another contact who says it is 1/KG 30 & the chap in the cockpit is Georg Eberle

[sidney]

To my eyes the apparently white section of the emblem looks like a map of a naval port or, say, coastal fortress, which might have been subjected to the bomber Staffel/Gruppe attacks (i.e., as indicated by the gun sight in either red or yellow), while the rest of the emblem might have been blue (i.e., the sea).

[edNorth]

Normal Ju 88 A-4 Dive-Bomber, anti-ship config (cannon there did not change designations at all) as KG 30 was in at that time. Map on shild seems be Murmansk area (then 1942ish)

[Stig Jarlevik]

Guys

Is the emblem previously shown as belonging to 1./KG 30 wrong, (the black umbrella with a gunsight on top) or was it replaced by this one?

Cheers
Stig

[sidney]

Stig,

The emblem previously shown as belonging to 1./KG 30 can be dated back to the year 1939/1940 and cannot be wrong (i.e., the black umbrella with a gunsight on top). If this emblem belonged to 1./KG 30 as suggested by Chris Goss in his post No.2, than it would be the latter variant of the emblem, which can perhaps be dated to the later part of 1941 or 1942.

There are many things that might have contributed to the Staffel emblem change, one for sure would be heavy losses of the personnel, whereby the entire Staffel would be reformed from the scratch. I am not saying that this is what happened here, but it is possible. Another possibility would obviously be theatre of war change, which would render the black umbrella (an English trademark) with a gunsight on top, obsolete on the Eastern Front. On the other hand, if you refer to the later version of I./JG 52 emblem, a black hand crushing a Spitfire over the Channel, that emblem was retained on the Gruppe's aircraft until 1943 as a memento of its deployment in the Battle of Britain and beyond.

Regards,
Sinisa

[Clint Mitchell]

There is clear evidence of another emblem having been overpainted to the bottom left of the new emblem. This looks like the former KG30 eagle emblem going by the distinct shape of the overpaint.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Thanks Sinisa

Yes I realise that, hence my question, but as Clint remarks there is another emblem overpainted as well.

I am just curious if someone 100% can confirm if this is 1./KG 30 or not.

Cheers
Stig

[Chris Going]

Agree completely with Sydney and Ed North. Can match up docks etc with GAF recon image on Murmansk pinned on board in front of me as I work. Water is dark tone.

ChrisG

[Richard Mills]

Gents

I really appreciate all of your respective inputs into my original question concerning the Wappen and the aircraft itself.

To be honest, I was very short for time when I posted this last night, and I was expecting the Wappen to be positively identified rather quickly as a unit not associated with KG 30 at all, the reasons for which I shall explain below.

A short time ago I purchased a group of documents relating to Georg Eberle, Bordfunker with Kampfgeschwader 30. Among the items were 2 post-war (very poorly) re-printed photographs, one of which contains the Wappen on the image posted on this thread, and the other showing a full crew in front of the same aircraft. However, as the images are very blurred, it is very difficult to ascertain whether the images actually show Eberle as many, many Luftwaffe document groups have been 'added to' in order to enhance the value by unscrupulous dealers in the past. Consequently, I was very pleased to read of the Wappen being associated with Murmansk, as his Flugbuch and Leistungbuch have several missions entered for this target.

In this case as it happens, the man leaning out of the cockpit window does bear a resemblance to Eberle, or at least the image on his Bordfunkerschein, and it may well indeed be him, especially with the Murmansk link associated to his aircraft (however, I am under no illusion that it also may not be)

Now to his unit assignments. As I now have Eberle's Soldbuch, I can catagorically state he did not at any point serve in 1./KG 30, in fact from 1941 to 1943 he flew exclusively with 2./Kampfgeschwader 30. As a result of this, can I take it that this is an as yet unrecorded Kampfgeschwader Wappen?

Anyway Gents, thank you all again for your help and I am still hoping that the man in the cockpit can be positively identified as Eberle.

Regards Richard.