German Fighter wreck

[Xerumbe]

@ Nick: i read your work about SSKaatsch. Can we follow the aircrafts of the JGr.200 with their identification marks once they have been given to their new unit? For Oblt Theodor Spies (from 5.(F)/123), the ID. "Schwarz 29" seems to be the same as in the original unit. If this is the same for JGr. 200 aircrafts. 200, the one on the photo would never have had an ID ? It would be surprising.

The story i wrote was in a local christian newspaper without name, only "Bulletin paroissial". We can try to translate in : Bulletin of the Church. The original issue was not find, the informations come from the work of a local historian (Marius Piron ou Pyron ?) in 1963 for the local christian authorities (in fact for the anniversary of the first 50 years of the newspaper). The man i met yesterday is looking to find the original paper. I will send you a copy when it will be found.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Xerumbe

@ Nick: i read your work about SSKaatsch. Can we follow the aircrafts of the JGr.200 with their identification marks once they have been given to their new unit? For Oblt Theodor Spies (from 5.(F)/123), the ID. "Schwarz 29" seems to be the same as in the original unit. If this is the same for JGr. 200 aircrafts. 200, the one on the photo would never have had an ID ? It would be surprising.

Assignment to Staffel Kaatsch was only a temporary measure. If you look at Appendix 3 of my article, you'll see that Black 29 was a 5.(F)/123 aircraft, taken over by Kaatsch, as was Black 19. After Kaatsch disbanded, Black 19 was returned to 3./NAG 1 (as 5.(F)/123 was renamed) and was reported as "19 + 63" when it was shot down in February 1945. Black 32 also came from 5./123 and finally returned to 3./NAG 1. Blue 7 kept its 4.(F)/123 marking when it served with Kaatsch.

(I have a theory, which I can't prove, that 5./123, and later 3./NAG 1, just numbered all its aircraft in sequence as it received them, so they carried some very high fuselage numbers, e.g. 65 and 66)

The story i wrote was in a local christian newspaper without name, only "Bulletin paroissial". We can try to translate in : Bulletin of the Church. The original issue was not find, the informations come from the work of a local historian (Marius Piron ou Pyron ?) in 1963 for the local christian authorities (in fact for the anniversary of the first 50 years of the newspaper). The man i met yesterday is looking to find the original paper. I will send you a copy when it will be found.

Thank you. The Church of England equivalent of "Bulletin paroissial" would be "Parish Magazine" or "Parish Newsletter" by the way.

[ouidjat]

....
Between Meyzieu and Pusignan??? ... Hmmm I like to be right!!
And 28 Août ... Picture being taken during early September if we follow that old man memory.
...
And, By the way:
In a JGr.Süd pilot list provided by Lino von Garzten I have this:
"Kehrer, ohne Vornamen, Oberfeldwebel, 2./JGr.200". No more detail.

Regards, Franck.

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by ouidjat

....
Between Meyzieu and Pusignan??? ... Hmmm I like to be right!!
And 28 Août ... Picture being taken during early September if we follow that old man memory.

I wonder, what finally happened to the wreck? There was little chance for the Germans to recover it because they were already evacuating Lyon-Bron at the time of the crash and the city was liberated on 3 September, I think, and so it was obviously left there to be photographed with civilians sitting on it. However this Bf 109 was not mentioned in the Allied intelligence report on Lyon-Bron's wrecks (8 September). Maybe nobody told the investigators that there was another machine 5 km away?

[ouidjat]

You're totally right Nick.
Looking the two young guys ... I'd say war is finished!
As for AIR ...
Well; looks like a G-8 of NAGr.11 at Campoformido story. You know the one outside of the camp but pictured by SAAF (See Stefaan old post)

[Marc-André Haldimann]

I follow you, Nick and Franck; except for this G-6 or G-8 of an unknown 2./NAGr. we initially thought to be seen at Campoformido but which ultimately belly landed in Hannover on 8 May 1945 and was photographed there...
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...-x4BvmR-w73H4C
http://www.flickr.com/photos/2809206...-dcWqbm-c85kqL

Cheers
Marc

[Xerumbe]

It is a very strange fact that this plane is not listed anywhere after the liberation of Lyons. Other wrecks were visited and photographed many times after the "Liberation" of Lyon. For example: https://www.facebook.com/guerretombe...70947733118645
Lyon was invaded by the French forces on 3 September 44, the Lyon Bron aerodrome was evacuated at most on 1 September (and certainly on 31 August). Would the wreck have been transported to the airfield? To my knowledge, no Me 109 has been listed as a wreck at this location.
Something troubles me with this story ...

[Xerumbe]

Originally Posted by ouidjat

....
Between Meyzieu and Pusignan??? ... Hmmm I like to be right!!
And 28 Août ... Picture being taken during early September if we follow that old man memory.

You like to be right ? So, me too. You seem to know the region and its history, you could certainly give me invaluable help on this.

I get there this week end and saw numerous houses between Meyzieu and Pusignan, i think the countryside has changed since 1944, do you know how it was at this year ?