Aerial Battles around Kiev October 1943

[Leo Etgen]

Hello guys

III./JG 51 was based at Poltawa in October 1943 along with IV./JG 51 in October 1943. IV./JG 51 was also based at Orscha in October 1943, all this according to www.ww2.dk/air/jagd/jg51.htm Note that although this web page states that III./JG 51 was flying the Bf 109 G-6 at the time it really was flying the Fw 190 A-4, A-5 and A-6 as can be seen at www.ww2.dk/oob/bestand/jagd/biiijg51.html Stabsstaffel/JG 51 was also operating in the south at the time but I do not know from which particular base although possibly the same as III./JG 51. I hope this helps out at least a little.

Horrido!

Leo

[NBE1942]

If IV/JG51 was based in Orsha, it could not have participated in the Kiev battle...

[yogybär]

Thanks Leo, JG51 is a good hint!

But... the Wehrmacht left Poltawa on 22nd of September 1943. So, no Luftwaffe unit could have been stationed there in October 1943 . I assume there is another place called "Poltawa" far more West then the big city we all know from the US-shuttle-raids...

Who kows another Poltawa on the right bank of the Dniepr?

[Dénes Bernád]

Mapquest shows 3 Poltavas in Ukraine:
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...=&city=poltava

[yogybär]

Hey, that is a good way of finding places!

Nevertheless, it is no solution of our riddle, because the "other" Poltavas aer even lesswestwards then the big one... strange...

[yogybär]

After some research, I propose the following german-hungarian OOB:
Stab/JG51 (Fw190)
I/JG51 (Fw190)
IIIJG51 (Fw190)
IV/JG51 (Me109)
II/JG54 (Fw190)
5., 6., 12./JG54 (Fw190A-4,5,6)
Stab, II,III / KG3 (Ju88 )
KG4 (He111)
I, II / KG53 (He111)
SG77 (Ju87, Fw190F)
NSGr.4 (Doppeldecker)
Transporter (Ju52, Me323)
dt. Aufklärer (Fw189, Me109)
ung.Stuka-Staffel (Ju87D)
ung.Bomber-Staffel (Ju88 )
ung.Nahaufkl.-Staffel (Fw189)
ung. Fernaukl.-Staffel (Ju88 )

with the following numbers of planes in PF:
Ju88: 84
He111H: 160
Bf109G4: 23
Bf109G6: 17
Fw190A-4: 34
Fw190A-5: 55
Fw190A-6: 41
Ju87D3: 43
Ju87D5: 36
Ju87G: 4
Fw189: 32
Fiat DoDe: 30
Ju52: 40
Me323: 6
Storch: 30
SUMME: 635

Any comments? Or is it just figure-f**king which doesn't interest anyone else ?

[ftrbmr]

This may help. Here is a Luftwaffe oob for Kursk.

http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver...2/lwkursk.html

Henry