Inscription on reverse of photo? Place name?

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Larry and Franck,

Does someone do have the codes for that werknummer 2996 ?

Maybe this is indeed the machine quoted by De Zeng "plus 1 x Ju 52 assigned to JG 77 destroyed" that you matched the werknummer and unit (KGr.zbV 104), Franck...

Amazing thread indeed...

Did Denès Bernard identifyed the machine and unit on his published book ? Denès, can you give us a glimpse of what you wrote for that particular action or picture ?

Congratulations Ian...amazing thread.

A. Baumgartner

[Ian Jewison]

Adriano,

Denès will contact me later with the info....

/Ian

[Ian Jewison]

I don't have any codes for the aircraft unfortunately.....

[Rottler]

Hello,

in the primary source Gen.Qu. loss return 15 August 1941 item 25 is listed:
21.7. K.Gr.z.b.V. 104 Feindflug, Ort: Balti, Ursache: Feindbeschuss, Ju 52 2996 100%.
In the Bundesarchiv Freiburg version of the loss return the loss category 5 is handwritten added = destroyed by gunfire from enemy aircraft on operational flight, not observed by enemy / Totalverlust ohne Feindbeobachtung durch Bordwaffenbeschuss auf Feindflug.
According to "ju52archiv.de" the Stammkennzeichen was NO+HG.

Regards
Leo

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by Adriano Baumgartner

Larry and Franck,

Does someone do have the codes for that werknummer 2996 ?

Maybe this is indeed the machine quoted by De Zeng "plus 1 x Ju 52 assigned to JG 77 destroyed" that you matched the werknummer and unit (KGr.zbV 104), Franck...

Amazing thread indeed...

Did Denès Bernard identifyed the machine and unit on his published book ? Denès, can you give us a glimpse of what you wrote for that particular action or picture ?

Congratulations Ian...amazing thread.

A. Baumgartner

Wow wow wow...
Wait a minute.... I did accept "Balti" and it happens that in lost list there is this machine (without code unfortunately) destroyed during July, i.e. in Summer.
BUT, for me, it's just a "maybe", nothing more.
Too much speculation on name at this point leading to one loss matching with the guessed name.
I think it's too much to be sure.


regards,
Franck.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

IAN,

There are some real experts here (I remember a similar thread that one used Google images and geographical details to do so) that maybe can check the geographic area in question.

One can see on the background of the Ju 52, some cliffs in the distance...and the vegetation seems to be dry and of low kind...

I still would have a glimpse on the Trapani loss...maybe someone can try to find the crewmembers and more detail....for me, the weather, climate, geographical details and perhaps the BOLZI (Italian) name points in that direction....

Could be Bolzi an Italian Officer on board of the Trapani lost machine ?

Adriano

[Adriano Baumgartner]

IAN,

Did a bit of "touristic" tour, and the mountainous area surrounding WILNA do seems more appropriate here with the background of your picture: http://www.garnek.pl/emzet/10531431/...wzgorza-trzech

Trapani is more mountainous than Wilna area...

A.B.

[ouidjat]

Originally Posted by Adriano Baumgartner

IAN,
Did a bit of "touristic" tour, and the mountainous area surrounding WILNA do seems more appropriate here with the background of your picture: Trapani is more mountainous than Wilna area...

A.B.

Yes , and the Ju52 has a Barbarossa Yellow band around the fuselage behind the black cross. exit Trapani.

[Adriano Baumgartner]

Franck, am not making conclusions...I am suggesting further researches, nothing more...am not specialist neither on LW, neither on Ju 52 or those two areas of Europe (Geographical details, etc.).

However I can see, like you, what is on the picture:
1- This is NOT winter so we can rule out from Ian's researches the two losses on winter (December and January)
2- There are some cliffs or low cliffs on the left side of the picture which does matches the surrounding (panorama) of Wilna and not Trapani area as I thought before wrongly;
3 - The BAND on the fuselage indeed seems to be YELLOW (pointing to the Eastern Front) rather White (Mediterranean Front);
4- We found some persons named Bolzi in Italy...(could lead towards the Trapani loss);
5- The machine do have the Flaps down...do not know if it was standard to raise them after landing or not...maybe the flyers used to let them down, ready for a quick take-off (some still do that);
6- Crew seems to have had time to evacuate (and one do not see strikes near the rear gunner place);
7- The plane seems to have bogged down or finished its course on some kind of geographical degree (near the bushes in the front)...or the landing gears collapsed. What do you think guys? Anyway...was it pushed there (if it was an air-to-ground strike by Russian planes)?
8 - the machine is coded ?? + MT as shown on the photograph...and IAN found some of the Ju 52 losses with the codes ending + MT....are there more??? or just those found by Ian??

Am just trying to open new roads...as I said, am not a specialist.


Adriano

[ouidjat]

I feel here comes an argument so I stop to post in this thread ...