Bombing of Warsaw in 1939.. goals?

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Hi
Marius you have not to read it (no "SS-man" is standing drirectly behind you and ordering you to do it), you have free will.

See, if you want to broaden your knowledge, buy or borror two volumes about:
"Cywilna obrona Warszawy we IX 1939", IH PAN, PWN, Warszwa 1964.
Second
"Obrona Warszawy w 1939 r. Wybór dokumentów", WIH, MON, Warszawa 1968.
These books are fundamental works (documents, reports, memories ect. about the defence of Wasaw in 1939 from civil - 1-st - and from military point of view - 2-ed - + presonal expirience in the 1-st.

There are almost daily reports about above topic. The first is even better many reports writtne by people who did work in city institutins and have very broaden point of observation and gathering information about city condition.


If I am right, Marius Emmerling is strong belive, that main Luftwaffe objective/tragets/ was to attack Polish city - Warsaw - only by using of paper. Not such nasty things like bombs ect, were "ever' used over Warsaw. And each German crew over Warsaw was forbbiden by high auhority's order to attack any single civil targets. You have very radiculus point/attitude on military history in WW II (?).

On 24/25 IX 2005 there were terror/bandids attack on civil population in Warsaw to breaking the spirit of defence nad to make own losses minimal. It was good done by Luftwaffe and with great success (this time there were not paper leaflets as Marius wants to see and belive as main tools of Lufftwaffe over Warsaw). The city had fallen in 4-3 days later.

There are much more publication about this period (like Obrona Warszawy by Marian Porwit, or second similar title by Marian Drozdowski - Alarm dla Warszawy. Obrona cywilna stolicy we IX 1939), but for Marius these books are not credible becasue he does not belive in any Polish decuments, memories; thinking about them as total false, not true and credilbe - only Polish propaganda and myth.
BTW Marian Porwit was one of senior commanders (he was professional officer) during the defence of Warsaw.

Only German documents are 100% true other data, thses made among enemies are propaganda's values and simply laises. OK you have right to promote such vision about aviation history in your publication, which is easily recognised and seen. I also have right to say you, that this is not credible attitude toward the past and glorification of nazim - in my private opinion. You are - in my opinion - neo-nazist/fashist oriented author.


PS
Why I am using so often "bandids attacks" - the answer is simple. Then there were many such bandids attacks made on civil tragets by German crews, many strafings on the city streets and homes.
In fact better do not talk futher about this.
There are not discution with neo-fashist as Marius.

[John Beaman]

OK, guys, if the personal attacks continue I will lock and delete this thread.

If you want to discuss the subject, do so with specific, DOCUMENTED facts, not accusations, inuendo, and what might be hersay.

This is the only warning you will get.

[Marius]

John,

please show me where I did personally attack Mirek or someone other? As you wrote "guys" I think you mean us both (?!).


Mirek,
What you are doing here is not fair. Please show me where my "opinions" are of "neo-fascism" kind. Please with title, page ond so on.

Furthermore please quote a document showing us that the bombings on Warsaw were not directed against enemy troops but against civilians (even maybe with the intention to terrorize the people?).

And please comment The Hague Conventions (Art.25, 27 ... - about defended and undefended cities and so on) concerning Warsaw in September 1939.

In forward many thanks!
Marius

P.S.Mirek, interestingly you are writing about books written in Poland in the sixties & seventies!

for Marius these books are not credible becasue he does not belive in any Polish decuments, memories; thinking about them as total false, not true and credilbe - only Polish propaganda and myth.

You better should differe documents from memories and legends. Please show us the documents presented there.

[Hauptmann]

Hello,

bombing civilian targets is part of aerial warfare...
You bomb civilian targets to get down the moral of the civil population and their support to the leadership...
Why did the americans and the british bomb german, japanese and italian cities???
I'm not saying that it's nice... but it helps winning a war...

[Rasmussen]

... and so we have to speak (with the words from Mirek Wawrzynski) from "simple terror or bandids (American/ British) bombs attacks on civil's homes, hospitals, power plants, etc ..." --- or not?

The mentioned things and a lot of old churches and historical houses were destroyed during the great bomb raid in December 3/4, 1943, against Leipzig --- all important war targets.

Only a thought for Mr. Wawrzynski.

[Hauptmann]

A war must be fougth to win it... civilian casualties are part of every war... The big problem ist that shooting on the Germans is easier than shooting on the Red Cross... The damages caused by german bombers on the UK were nothing if cosidered to the damages and casualties caused by allied bombers... but Germany lost the war... Goering would have been sentenced to dead if he wouldn't have committed suicide... Harris got a statue ( The city of Dresden protested against it... ) ...
The allied didn't any experimentation on jews... but as war ended they pretended from the japaneese their research material on experiments using living humans... and they probably got also all the datas from the german experiments...
In Italy, where I leave, the comunist partisans commited atrocities that the germans didn't even think about... but they won the war... so the germans are the evil... and all wath the commies did was done to liberate Italy...

The winners writes history for their advantage...

[Fairlop]

Herr Hauptmann,

Never before I took part in these tough disscussions but I have to make one first and last note on your extra-simple and outrageous view on the problem(s).

Some Third Reich admirers writes history for their advantage...

P.s. When you are speaking about evil, please visit my country and a lot of local museums will show you how Germans "worked" with Lidice, Lezaky, etc.

Michal

[Nick Beale]

The war of aggression that Nazi Germany launched against Poland was aimed at territorial conquest and the enslavement of the population in the name of Lebensraum in the East and a bunch of quasi-mystical claptrap about the "destiny" of the German "race."

The Luftwaffe had no legitimate reason to be in Polish airspace at all.