BP+FO, W.Br. 7204

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski

Read it 7-204, which suggests Si 204 in some code I guess. There was 8-109, but I do not remember if 8 denoted fighter aircraft or aircraft,

8- were airframes and 9- were engines but thank you Franek because you inspired a thought that gave me the answer. Maybe the cipher clerk read "Siebel" as "Sieben" (= seven)?

[Franek Grabowski]

Possibly, unless there was another code for such communications.
I wonder, do you have complete aircraft traffic in Ultra?

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski

I wonder, do you have complete aircraft traffic in Ultra?

No, just a part of what is there for 1944–45, a few things from late 1943, items from Summer 1942 that related to my Kommando Koch project, one message from 1941 … there are hundreds of thousands of items from the Luftwaffe and army, even before you get to the naval material (which often links to Allied or German air operations) or the police and intelligence services’ signals (which I have looked at but are very hard to find anything specific in; they are in German and are mostly from and to callsigns whose meaning I don’t know). I haven’t seen the Reichsbahn traffic at all but I believe there is some.

[Stig Jarlevik]

Confess I was impressed by Nick's lateral thinking here.

Sieben 204 (is 7204)

Siebel 204 is just that, the aircraft type. Also it STKZ was used upon landing.

Why didn't I think of that?

Cheers
Stig

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by Nick Beale

No, just a part of what is there for 1944–45, a few things from late 1943, items from Summer 1942 that related to my Kommando Koch project, one message from 1941 … there are hundreds of thousands of items from the Luftwaffe and army, even before you get to the naval material (which often links to Allied or German air operations) or the police and intelligence services’ signals (which I have looked at but are very hard to find anything specific in; they are in German and are mostly from and to callsigns whose meaning I don’t know). I haven’t seen the Reichsbahn traffic at all but I believe there is some.

So I understand those are random messages, as intercepted, and nothing that allows to build a broader picture? I guess there might be many gems, but without having all the intercepts digitised, and without a proper search tool it could be hard to locate them.
Franek

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski

So I understand those are random messages, as intercepted, and nothing that allows to build a broader picture? I guess there might be many gems, but without having all the intercepts digitised, and without a proper search tool it could be hard to locate them.
Franek

You can build a broader picture from those "random messages", something they did with great success during the war and that I've been trying to do since 1987. Some messages give great detail about the aircraft on strength with a unit or a comeplete after-action report on a raid, others might be a request for a spare wheel. There is no shortcut to putting in many hours of reading the material.

All of the "Main Series of reports to Allied Commands" (spring 1941–May 1945) are free to download from the National Archives and Andy Mitchell has transcribed some of these on Luftwaffe Data.

If haven't already, take a look at Using ULTRA for Luftwaffe research on my website.

[Franek Grabowski]

I was not precise enough. I mean searchable transcript/ocr of those messages, allowing automatic extraction of relevant data to build a database.
As you note, you have been working on those for 40 years, and still you have not get through all of that, as I understand.
Franek

I think I understood what you meant and I was just pointing out that there are online resources available if you want to start compiling the kind of database you are talking about. My own work on ULTRA has never aimed at that, it has always been in support of individual projects, usually involving a particular unit at a particular time.

[cbe2009]

I have the Flugbuch belonging to a Ogr. Karl-Heinz Marse, where he is flying BP + FO, a Siebel 204 D if you need a name to put inside the plane.