B-17 43-38132

[manniw]

I am looking for information about the crash of B-17 “Old Patch” 43-38132 of the 849 Bomber Squadron on January 10, 1945, in Frechen-Bachem.
I am familiar with MACR and KU38132 and have them on file. Does anyone have information about the exact crash site and the whereabouts of the captured crew members Perry Delmon WALKER and Gordon William PUGH?


Thank you and best regards
Manni

[RSwank]

Newspaper story about Perry Delmon Walker.

https://www.newspapers.com/article/t...can/183253880/

Walker died in 1982: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...-delmon-walker

Pugh missing: https://www.newspapers.com/article/t...many/24897507/
https://www.newspapers.com/article/t...mes/183255260/

Pugh's grave: https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/...n-william-pugh

[Buckeye30]

Hi Manni. Mission Summaries say down at 50.50N--06.10E or identified as JULICH (which is 50.55N--06.21E according to Google maps); not far west of the Primary Target Cologne (Mission 789).


Hope this helps
Nick

[manniw]

Thanks Roland and Nick for your comments.


Nick: the coordinates only indicate where the aircraft was last SEEN. The crash site could still be miles away.

[Alex Smart]

Hi Manni,
Five crew killed and four POW , ( Shakira, Walker, Chambers & Lynde).
Can the POW capture details give any location ?

"Mighty Eighth Combat Chronology has FTR LOC, AA, CR - Julich ?
" Heavy Bombers of the Mighty Eighth gives the same " Julich?".
So anyplace with a similar name as "Julich" known ?
"Losses of the 8th & 9th Air Forces vol 6 has on page 46 - "A/c crashed near Bachem in the Cologne area".
Followed by " Casualties were buried in Bachem Cemetery, Field No.3, the CP in grave No 49 and TG in grave No 51."
OK, so I looked at Google Map of the area.
On the outskirts of the Bachem area to the west there is a green area, so countyside(?) Where a crash landing may have happened. Also near the edge of the Bachem town(?) There is /was a Jewish Cemetery written as "Judischer" so this could be the "Julich" ???

Alex

[Leendert]

Manni, in your post #1 you write that the B-17 came down in Frechen-Bachem, just W of Cologne. Is this confirmed since you also asked for the location of the crash?

Leendert

[manniw]

Hello Alex and Leendert,
The whole thing is very confusing:
1: There is a place called JÜLICH, which is repeatedly cited as the crash site. However, there is no document to prove this.
2: If 43-38132 had crashed in Jülich, the dead would have been buried there and not in Bachem, which is about 35 km east of Jülich.
3: At least one of the dead from 43-38132 (PUGH) was buried in the cemetery in Bachen. Another person whose name is known (BUTCHER from 43-37620, crashed in Grube Fischbach) was buried with him. Eight other people were buried as “unknown soldiers” in the cemetery in Bachem. I am not aware of this.
3: At least one of the dead from 43-38132 (PUGH) was buried in the cemetery in Bachen. Another person whose name is known (BUTCHER from 43-37620, crashed in Grube Fischbach) was buried with him. Eight other people were buried as “unknown soldiers” in the cemetery in Bachem. I do not know how these dead were identified during the exhumation after the war, as I have no documentation on this.
Therefore, both the location of the graves and the respective crash sites remain a mystery to this day.
What's more, several B-17s crashed in the Cologne area on that day. And there were parachutists who were killed and buried as “unknown soldiers.”
So, mystery upon mystery—after 80 years, no small matter to solve.
Manni

[edwest2]

There may be a local archive at the place where the crew was buried. When doing research like this, and the more accessible sources do not have the desired information, then local sources should be investigated. Some other suggestions:


https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/
https://www.abmc.gov/cemeteries-memo...ican-cemetery/
https://wwiiregistry.abmc.gov/

[manniw]

Hello Edwest,
Believe me, I have searched through every local archive imaginable in this area. And without any results. I am also familiar with all of the archives you suggested and have searched through them as well...
Nevertheless, thank you for your help.
Manni

[RSwank]

In the very incomplete IDPF online files, there is a 175 page IDPF for Virgil Biggs. He was on 43-37620 (buried as unknown at Bachen and identified after the war. )

https://catalog.archives.gov/id/330475439

The file can be downloaded as a pdf file. Sometimes there is information on other airmen in the IDPF files, so maybe worth a look.

Have you tried to get any IDPF files for any of the men? You could try commericial vendors but they will not be free.

Rolland