Soviet Hurricanes - where, when, ...?

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

OK
I know that not whole division was send just in one time into the battle but partialy. More to many times is mentioned that: 46, 180, 191, 436 of 235. IAD were equipted in Hurricanes and were in 235. IAD structure, you may see and check the link in Russian:

http://www.allaces.ru/cgi-bin/s2.cgi...ruct/p_all.dat

There is mentioned above regiments and used by them Hurricanes in the "Battle of Stalingarad" - first period about VI-IX 42.

Sorry but you still "accused/sustein" to many peoples about "blidness" or "stupidness".
More info of 235. IAD
"13.06.42 г. вошла в состав 8-й ВА.
С 10.09.1942 г. входила в состав 1-го иак."

And about 46. IAP
"Летом 1942 г. входил в состав 235-й иад.
К концу августа 1942 г. после напряженных боев на сталинградском направлении в полку осталось 4-5 "Харрикейнов."

There you may fine more infor about next 3 regiments, and you still sustain your opinion about Łagg-3 in others unit. Of course there were earlier or later. In my opinion 235. IAD had different regiments including 4 ones on Hurricanes, which during the battle were used and withdrawn for re-supply and new one were put into the service. But your 1 post denaied any rights for 4 regiments being in comabts in Stalingard battle on Hurricanes - this is strange!

You still want to makes from some authors an idiots - funy?

Regards
mw

PS
See what have you personaly written, it is great precise: The only VVS unit equipped with Hurricanes which took part in the Stalingrad battle was 436 IAP.

You wants from me to be precise, but your claims are not precise and more you do not present true statmens making a mass anyway!
Sorry, frankly you do not know what you are writing about!

[NBE1942]

LOL.

I know that not whole division was send just in one time into the battle but partialy. More to many times is mentioned that: 46, 180, 191, 436 of 235. IAD were equipted in Hurricanes and were in 235. IAD structure, you may see and check the link in Russian:

I know this link. That is true.

There is mentioned above regiments and used by them Hurricanes in the "Battle of Stalingarad" - first period about VI-IX 42.

Sorry but you still "accused/sustein" to many peoples about "blidness" or "stupidness".
More info of 235. IAD
"13.06.42 г. вошла в состав 8-й ВА.
С 10.09.1942 г. входила в состав 1-го иак."

And about 46. IAP
"Летом 1942 г. входил в состав 235-й иад.
К концу августа 1942 г. после напряженных боев на сталинградском направлении в полку осталось 4-5 "Харрикейнов."

I know Vasiliy Kharin, whose site it is, personally. Unfortunatelly, his sources are mostly based on the open records (memoirs, history books and etc.). They are not so reliable as we wish to be. Note the date of entering 235 IAD into 8 VA - June 13, 1942. This is the battle of Kharkov. For the past two months 235 IAD was completely destroyed in the battles of Kharkov, Voronezh and other retreat operations. Thus, none of the above-mentioned regiments flew any combat sorties in the Stalingrad battle exept 436 IAP. All Hurricanes were accumulated in 436 IAP, which conducted combat duties for the first several days of Stalingrad battle from July 17 till July 26. On July 22, 1942 265 IAD was withdrawn from 8 VA and its regiments: 13 IAP and 156 IAP were handled to 235 IAD. From this time Hurricanes of 436 IAP made few combat sorties and soon were sent to rest and refit.
BTW, from what source you draw a conclusion that 1 IAK ever participated in Stalingrad battle? 235 IAD was in 1 IAK for a short time in september-october 1942. It was equipped with La-5s and was far away from Stalingrad...

К концу августа 1942 г. после напряженных боев на сталинградском направлении в полку осталось 4-5 "Харрикейнов."

By the end of August 46 IAP was already withdrawn from the frontline.

But your 1 post denaied any rights for 4 regiments being in comabts in Stalingard battle on Hurricanes - this is strange!

I do not deny. I simply know that from operational documents of 235 IAD.

See what have you personaly written, it is great precise: The only VVS unit equipped with Hurricanes which took part in the Stalingrad battle was 436 IAP.

Key words here are "Stalingrad battle". Other regiments did not live long to be combat ready for the Stalingrad battle.

[Dénes Bernád]

Talking of Hurricanes in the Stalingrad Battle, on January 20, 1943 two Rumanian Bf 109E pilots claimed a Hurricane each over Kudinov.

Can the victims' identity be established?

[NBE1942]

Originally Posted by Dénes Bernád

Talking of Hurricanes in the Stalingrad Battle, on January 20, 1943 two Rumanian Bf 109E pilots claimed a Hurricane each over Kudinov.

Can the victims' identity be established?

We need to check where is Kudinov. I doubt that this could be Hurricanes as non of the units were equipped with them in VAs around Stalingrad.

[Mirek Wawrzynski]

Key words here are "Stalingrad battle". Other regiments did not live long to be combat ready for the Stalingrad battle.

Yes it is the key word, I think the day of begining of "Fall Blau" was the begining of operation for "capturing" Stalingrad (28 VI 1942). The first phase to capture Voronez, nextr to Don river (Don's bend) and later towards Stalingard. For me this is the period of begining the battle + phases. So it was the first pahse battle for Stalingard of capturing in Novyj Oskol railway stattion a few Hurricanes (2 at least) by German + Hungarian troops + 1 LaGG-3 more. Planes were damaged after belly landing.

Charkov's battle was earlier, a little bit.

С 10.09.1942 г. входила в состав 1-го иак."
This info comming from Vasiliy Kharin's site.

Regards
MirekW

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by NBE1942

We need to check where is Kudinov.

Mapquest found four Kudinov in Russia, all of them located south-west of Stalingrad:
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...=&city=kudinov

[NBE1942]

Originally Posted by Dénes Bernád

Mapquest found four Kudinov in Russia, all of them located south-west of Stalingrad:
http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp...=&city=kudinov

There are three variants: one it was Hurricane from Rostov PVO. The possibility is very dismal. Other variants that this is misidentification or overclaim

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by NBE1942

There are three variants: one it was Hurricane from Rostov PVO. The possibility is very dismal. Other variants that this is misidentification or overclaim

I found an additional info on the incident. The pair of Rumaian Bf 109Es flew in the Bataisk-Manitschkaja area. Is this of help to identify where is Kudinov?

Both victories were confirmed by Rumanian air force (ARR) HQ. This, of course, doesn't mean that it could not have been aircraft type misidentification, or overclaim.