Rumanian Hurricanes claiming ten 'Grumman' fighters on June 30, 1941...

[Evgeny Velichko]

AFAIK "Curtiss" in german claims in Spain and early 1941 meaned "I-15", because germans always called I-16 as "Rata"

I-153 "Chayka" (SeaGull) was a Biplane, and... not looks like "Grumman" F4F

IMHO those "Grummans" was just I-16

[focusfocus]

thanks Dénes for the names of rumanians pilots
I have no information of soviet side but I inquire

[Graham Boak]

If you think about what prominent feature would make the Romanian pilots think "Grumman", then it has to be a retractable undercarriage on a biplane. The I-153 certainly does not look like the F4F, but in the heat of combat it could be mistaken for the Grumman FF-1, the Grumman SF-1, the Grumman F2F or the Grumman F3F. These don't look a lot like the I-153 to our better-informed, more relaxed, eye, with time to think and consider, but then the I-16 doesn't look much like the F4F either.

[Nokose]

Eugen, Do you or anyone on the Russian Forum have any records on the Russian side as to the 3 dogfights that day in that area? It would be interesting to see how many Hurricanes were claimed by them compared to overall actual losses.

[Evgeny Velichko]

Oki, I'll ask

I am a bit busy now, working on 23th Aug.1942, combat over Gorodische/Stalingrad. Trying to confirm some german and russian claims...

[Dénes Bernád]

Yes, that would be great if you could ask around, as information on the 96 OIAE, based on Izmail airfield, in Southern Bessarabia, close to the Danube's estuary, is very scarce (except for the openiong day of war, 22 June 1941).

Thanks,

[Evgeny Velichko]

Hi all!

I've received a short answer from Sukhoy Forum:

That "Grummans were I-15bis (I-152) from 96 OIAE VVS ChF

This means: 96th Detached Fighter Avia Squadron of VVS BlackSea Fleet.

Photoe of I-15bis (I-152).

[Dénes Bernád]

Originally Posted by Eugen Gross

Hi all!

I've received a short answer from Sukhoy Forum:

This means: 96th Detached Fighter Avia Squadron of VVS BlackSea Fleet.

Thanks for your effort, Eugen.
Can you ask them if any of the ten victory claims on June 30, 1941 can be verified by Soviet losses?

[Modeldad]

At this point any radial engined aircraft could be "mistaken" for a Grumman fighter. Even if Graham is correct, the FF-1 "FiFi"was a good size two seater. Some FF-1 aircrat reached Spain, but was designated as the G-23 Delfin and made by CCF in Canada. At least one Republican aircraft (AD-001) was captured by the Nationalist and repainted in nationalist markings. The F2F or the F3F does look a little closer to a small bi-plane fighter.

SEE: http://www.is.northropgrumman.com/ga...cal/index.html

[Stig Jarlevik]

Denes

You list seven pilots, but state 10 victories. This means some claimed more than one. Care to share with us which pilots who did?

I cannot find this combat in your Osprey book about the aces

Cheers
Stig