355 FG engagements w/experten

[Erich]

hope this is readable. From a P-51 pilot of the 357th fg taking on JG 300 Sturms/Bf 109G's. from M. Williams copied archival reports

[Leo Etgen]

Hello guys

Two more experten that I have uncovered. Better late than never!

Miksch: on 1 December 1943 in Bf 109 G-6 "Black 13" (W.Nr. 140 007) in the Nijmegen area.
Hoppe: on 1 December 1943 in Fw 190 A-6 "White 6" (W.Nr. 550 731) over Cambrai/Epinoy by Spitfire fighters.

Horrido!

Leo

[drgondog]

Eric noted in another forum that IV/JG27, ZG26 and I/JG301 were engaged in the Munich battle on 24 April 1944. I know JG3 was there but don't have a feel for their losses - anybody have a better idea?

Leo - thanks for the update on Hoppe and Miktsch..

[Erich]

April 24, 44, III./JG 3 thanks to Jochen Priens exhaustive study(s)

at least 7 Bf 109G-6's lost to aerial combat., 5 to P-51's. Dachau and Neuburg being mentioned.

I./JG 3 lost 6 Bf 109G's, 4 in combat and Neuburg again mentioned along with Lachen-Speyersdorf

E ~ any others guys ?

[drgondog]

Eric - it seems you have fingered the primary opponent of the 355th on the 24th. That spot just north of Munich is where both the 357FS and 354FS got half of their claims, the other half scattered from Regensburg area to east of Munich to S and SE of Munich.

The 358FS spread themselves thin to fill the vacuum to cover the assigned B-17s.

This is one great example of the Luftwaffe being able to find a spot between groups (357 and 355) based on strung out bomber formations and load up the local area with a lot of fighters. The 1st BD lost at least 7 in that area plus 7 that went to Switzerland..

The 357FG and 355FG overlapped the fight area, 357 getting there about 20 minutes earlier.

Thanks again!

[Erich]

anything to help Bill. A tough point is the number of single engine JG's that put up fighters in numbers and joined together to form formations to attack the bombers. Single(ing) them out in fighter vs fighter combats is very hard to distinguish.

E ~

[drgondog]

I know Eric. One of the reasons I looked at all the 355FG encounter reports (and Scout Force) is to piece together the times and locations. I now have that for all the major engagements from 4 October 43 to 20 April 45.

Then thanks to you and Leo and Richard and Tony and others, I have been piece by piece looking at claims on the LW side (for times and locations) and losses when that info is available.

The last piece is the escort track to RV and the bomber track to point of BE. If a 355 encounter took place outside that envelope then I compute a straight line back to Steeple Morden.

Thus far Tony Woods has been prime source but has a lot of time and place 'holes' for claims. Even so it is very useful in tracking B-24 and B-17 claims to help fill in my own knowledge gaps in the planned routes for those missions where I don't have a picture of the Mission Board, as well as the order of battle for the LW as the claims link to the tracks and times.

For example I don't have the Mission Board image for April 19, 1944 but I have the RV point south of Brunswick near Goslar and know the target for the 355 escorted bombers was direct toward Eschwege so the 'track' was almost 190, just East of Gottingen and over Duderstadt.

This info along Leo's info re: Wessling - pretty well links him to Woody based on claim/loss location. Still could be a mismatch but still high probability link. For example, it was very rare for perhaps the 4th FG and 355th to be in a scrap at exactly the same place and time.. but when the place confluence existed then only a 'time' is close to a tie-breaker

Having said that I do not claim certainty!

In the book I will link the pilot to the fight but won't express certainty- as you noted it is just too hard in a highly fluid environment and 'spotty' recollections based on time and place when the adrenaline is flowing at mach 1...

I would love other approaches if they work for you.

Regards,

Bill