P-51s vs FW-190s on 20/1/45 N. of Regensburg

[mayfair35]

Hello Again Adriano,
Thank you for all your detailed information. I really appreciate it. Referring to the 24 June mission, I was returning early with a rough engine at between 20 to perhaps 23,000 feet. Somewhere over Jugoslavia while flying beside the bomber stream which was on the way to Ploesti, I was shocked to see 6 or 7 Me-109s lined up beside the stream preparing to attack the B-24s. I immediately decided to make a head on attack (I was higher than they were) and shoot them all down. Ha Ha, no one has a monopoly on being stupid. As I dove on them, they began their passes and by the time I got there, there was only one left. He began his pass, and I had to pull 4 Gs to get on his tail which blew out my gunsight bulb. I then opened fire jockeying around trying to figure out where I should be aiming. Here is the picture. I am firing at the Me-109, he is firing at the B-24s, and the B-24s are firing at both of us. Never saw so many orange bees flying through the air in my entire life and realizing that there were at least 3 or 4 that were not tracers, I had a great appreciation for what the German pilots went through when attacking bombers.
I finally started hitting him but not sure whether he caught fire or it was his coolant streaming out. Followed him to 15,000 feet as he tried to dive away but then had to return to the bombers. It was a court martial offense to go below 15K. That was a probable victory. I have the mission report for 24 and 28 June if you are interested plus the 9 July one.
An English gentleman, named Sadler, was also interested in trying to determine whom I shot down and came to the conclusion that on 28 June, it was Lt Gehring and on 9 July it was Uffz Hommes. The problem was that he tried to connect the times of my victories and probable location with the reports of the German pilots. Although these may be correct, if so it would only be by chance.
Let me explain. Our combat map was about 10 inches high and about 3 inches wide. That covered from our base to Berlin and from France to Greece. It had 2 sides but we mostly used only the part that covered Austria, East Germany, Hungry, Czeckoslovakia, Poland, Bulgaria, and Roumania (the Eastern part of Europe). Major cities, rivers, and railroads were shown. From 30,000 feet I had no difficulty knowing exactly where I was. But in a fight, I had no time to refer to a map or a clock for the time and so when we got right down on the deck, it was a guess as to what direction we had been flying and and how long. I think this is mostly guess work as in combat I am sure the seconds passed far more slowly than during normal flight so most of us have a limited ability to give that kind of information. We usually depended upon the bombers to say where they were attacked, or where we began the engagement and how it went from then on.
Would you like me to post the mission reports for the above?
Cordially, Art

[mayfair35]

Laurent reference you 31 May message.
My 4th victory was on 26 July, probably near Graz. Our mission was PTW for the 55th Wing (B-24s) which were the 2nd wing of bombers from the end of the bomber stream. The 5th Wing (B-17s) were the last bombers in the stream. We were between 27,000/ 28,000 feet and were overtaking the bombers when the FW-190s attacked. The story of what happened is told by a writer from the 419th Bomb Squadron/301st Bomb Group plus my story is included. The book is no longer in print, and I have no idea if one can quote something from it on the net but will try to contact the author and if he is still alive (I don't think so) ask for permission to reprint it. It is a dramatic story and gives a great perspective of the hell the bombers went through and the boo boos my group made. Laurent I find it impossible to give you a maneuver by maneuver description of my actions and in fact when I was interviewed by Dog Fights, I had to use my hands. Of course you know fighter pilots would be mute without their hands!!
This is a good place to ensure you know that I DID NOT WALK ON WATER! I made far too many mistakes but was able to recover and live to fight. In addition, because of this forum, I have looked more carefully at my encounter reports and my Form 5. They are often incorrect. My probable victory on 24 June was over Jugoslavia but Intelligence wrote it up that I was over Ploesti and in a flight of four! I never got to Roumania and was all alone when I encountered the 109s. I hope the info in my Form 5 (flight record) is more accurate. I know how the problems occurred. At mission debriefing, they took notes which sometimes were not transcribed for a week or more. Since we never saw the reports, we did not have an opportunity to correct them. I wished now that I had insisted on seeing them.
Cordially, Art Fiedler

[mayfair35]

Erich in reference to your 3 June inquiry:
After 30 June 1944, all my flights were in the P-51D. My first combat mission was 13 June and my Form 5 says I flew 7 combat missions in the P-51C. During that time, I had the one probable (24June) and 2 victories on (28 June).
On 30 June I came out to fly the mission and on the revetment was a brand new P-51D with #35 and "Helen" on it. I had no idea we were getting new aircraft. I feel in love with it and its far better visibility.
Erich our squadron patch was made up way before I was in the squadron. I have no idea by whom or when. Our checkertail motif was approved in North Africa while flying the P-40s. There was lots of opposition from higher hqts but we were able to get permission from the "Head" and so it passed.
Cordially, Art

[Frank Olynyk]

Just for the heck of it, I thought I would post what Art's combat reports state about time and location.

June 24, 1944, 0950 hours, Ploesti, Me-109 prob
June 28, 1944, 1005 hours, Bucharest, Me-109
June 28, 1944, 1012 hours, Bucharest, Me-109
July 9, 1944, 1015 hours, 10 m S of Ploesti, Me-109
July 26, 1944, 1115 hours, S of Vienna, FW-190
July 26, 1944, 1135 hours, 30-40 m S of Lake Balaton, Me-109
Sept 15, 1944, 0920 hours, Megara A/D (Greece), Ju-52
Oct 12, 1944, 1420 hours, Coskvar (?) A/D (Hungary), He-111
Jan 20, 1945, 1300 hours, N of Regensburg, FW-190

In all but one case he was flying a P-51 coded 35 (but see his earlier post about his aircraft). The exception is Oct 12, when he flew #11 (see Art's post below).

Frank.

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by mayfair35

In addition, because of this forum, I have looked more carefully at my encounter reports and my Form 5. They are often incorrect. My probable victory on 24 June was over Jugoslavia but Intelligence wrote it up that I was over Ploesti and in a flight of four! I never got to Roumania and was all alone when I encountered the 109s. I hope the info in my Form 5 (flight record) is more accurate. I know how the problems occurred. At mission debriefing, they took notes which sometimes were not transcribed for a week or more. Since we never saw the reports, we did not have an opportunity to correct them. I wished now that I had insisted on seeing them.

This is a very important statement and I would appreciate if you could point out all the mistakes in Encounter Reports. Also, I am very interested what kind of paperwork you had to file from the morning till the night - I mean here reception of an aircraft, log book entry or whatever.
Thank you