Me 262 should have been used as a bomber?

[Franek Grabowski]

Roger, sorry for 'changing' your name, call it temporary mental disablement.
Otherwise I do not agree with the numerical superiority argument. It is a common excuse but I would hardly call it a decisive factor. At least not in the context.
Kutscha, in 1950s they flew at 14+ kms, perhaps at an earlier date they were not cleared for more. Nonetheless note that mentioned 13 km (have not checked it) is an operational altitude which is still 1,5 km more than the maximum ceiling of Me 262. Add to this obvious problems with intercepting the target and it means Spitfire 19 (post war marking) was untouchable.

[CJE]

Franek, OK, the PR Spit was out of reach.
But was it a decisive factor in winning the air war over the Reich? Obviously not. Outnumbering the LW was!

[Andy Fletcher]

If my memory serves me correctly didn't Eric Brown the famous British Test Pilot say the Me 262 was probably the best aircraft he had ever flown (I think it was during some documentary on Discovery). He flew practically all British aircraft types, as well as many American and Axis types.

However even if the aircraft possessed great performance it would count for nothing if plagued with serviceability problems, used in the wrong role, grounded due to lack of fuel or unavailable in sufficient numbers which the Me 262 often was.

A revolutionary aircraft but too little too late.

[Juha]

Hello Andy
IIRC Brown's writings he wrote that the best planes he flew were Spitfire/Seafire and F-86 Sabre.

[Andy Fletcher]

Hi Juha,

Like I said I was going on memory and TV interviews/documentaries are often edited so that comments are quoted out of context. Maybe he said "one of the best" aircraft he had ever flown or the "best Axis type".

Thanks for the correction

[Graham Boak]

I seem to have lost my last two posts.

At the risk of wandering too far from the point, can I point out that the ability to fly reconnaissance missions anywhere over enemy territory, with little or no effect interference: to see what the enemy has got, where it is placed, what he is doing with it, and the results of your own actions; certainly should have been decisive. Not THE decisive effort, but one of the most important. I would also point out that being outnumbered did not seem to be a problem to the Germans earlier in the war. Simply being outnumbered was not decisive in itself.

[RT]

At the break of the war nd for 2 years they never, the germans, be outnumbered , they manage to take the adversaries one after the other, very clever , later they were a bit less clever nd declare war to everybody who want fight, the outnumbering arrived nd many more problems with it,

The outnumbering make possible the bombing-war, even if at my sense is no worth the cost of the bombers built, because the german didn'nt outnumbered the RAF the battle was lost for them, they lost their bomber for nill

remi

[Andy Fletcher]

Originally Posted by Graham Boak

I seem to have lost my last two posts.

At the risk of wandering too far from the point, can I point out that the ability to fly reconnaissance missions anywhere over enemy territory, with little or no effect interference: to see what the enemy has got, where it is placed, what he is doing with it, and the results of your own actions; certainly should have been decisive. Not THE decisive effort, but one of the most important. I would also point out that being outnumbered did not seem to be a problem to the Germans earlier in the war. Simply being outnumbered was not decisive in itself.

I agree with Graham reference photo reconnaissance. Without accurate target data the bombing offensive against German industry would have been far less effective. If the bombers only hit targets of oppurtunity or bombed where they thought key industries were located the Germans may not always of been compelled to defend, the Allies thus losing a degree of strategic initiative. The Jagdwaffe may then have been able to conserve some of it's strength and/or deploy it elsewhere. As it was the Jagdwaffe was concentrated to defend German industry and was compelled to try and stop the systematic destruction of key industries and was ultimately bled white until air superiority was lost and it was incapable of stopping the bombing.

Photo reconnaissance wasn't the decisive factor in the defeat of Germany but was one of the parts that contributed to it.

Sorry for being off topic.

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher

[ArtieBob]

Just a quick note on outnumbering the Luftwaffe. IIRC, the Eastern front in the final stages of the war might have seemed a better area to demonstrate the effect of overwhelming numerical superiority against the Luftwaffe. However, using the Luftwaffe's own data, loss rates per mission were several times higher in the West versus the East. There are many factors which may have affected the numbers, but allied numeric superiority is probably overplayed and does not give enough weight the relative level of tactics, training and equipment opposing the Luftwaffe late in the war.

Best Regards,

Artie Bob

[Juha]

Hello Andy
I also answered refering only my memory and it is entirely possible that we both remembered right. Spit and Sabre were both excellent a/c and delight to fly but I cannot find the article of Brown, maybe one in an old Aeroplane Monthly, from which I recall reading his preference of those two a/c. But in his Duels in the Sky p. 198 his assessment on Me 262A-1 was "The Me262A-1a was the most formitable aircraft produced in WWII..."

On the other hand on p. 201 on Spit XIV his assessmet was: "The Spitfire XIV was the greatest British fighter of World War II, incorporating as it did so many improvements over earlier models without losing anything in looks or handling." BTW I have seen also opinions which differ on Mk XIV handling vs earlier marks.

But in his final list of greatest single-seat fighters of WWII on p. 208 the first place is divided between Spitfire and Fw 190.