Another wreck of Bf110

[John Vasco]

Suggest you look at the W. Nr. as being 3122, which is in the 'C-2' block of W. Nr.. Remember, the difference between the handwritten numbers '1' and '7' in German at that time (if not up to present) is that the '1' is written like a '7', and a '7' had a small horizontal line through it to denote the difference.

The overstamping of 'C-1' to 'C-2' would simply mean that the improved electronics/radio system was fitted (see Petrick/Mankau) during the production run.

[John Vasco]

Tomislav,

The biggest external difference between the 'C' series and the 'E' was that the 'E' had a rectangular inlet on the nose between the two central MG 17s.
'C' variants were retro-fitted with parts as early as 1940 - photos exist of 'C's with armoured windscreens,for example. Internal armour could have been retro-fitted.

I still suggest pursuing the line of a Bf 110 C-2 with the W. Nr. 3122.

[stephen f. polyak]

John,

That is a very real possibility. Often (but not always), the written/hand-painted number "7" had a horizontal line or dash placed across the stem to distinguish it from a 1 with a "flagged" top. However, the number "1" was itself sometimes different in that the "flag" at top was longer and at a significant downward angle. To me, the second digit on the armor plate suggests a 7 more than a 1. I notice that the stem curves up and to the right and that the upper line is both short and horizontal.

I appreciate knowing what the C-1 to C-2 over-stamp denotes - I have several identically marked 110 plates.

r/Steve

[John Vasco]

OK, I think Tomislav has established beyond reasonable doubt that 3U+JH came down a considerable distance from where the remains of the Bf 110 which is the subject of this thread were found. Not the same aircraft.

Regarding the numerals '1' and '7', here's one example of what I am talking about. Handwritten correspondence from Balthasar Aretz, pilot of 2./Erpr. Gr. 210; III./ZG 26, and other units. Note how he writes the number '7'. This is just one of many examples I have in my research records.

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, guys.

In my opinion the WNr written on the armour plate is 3722 and not 3122.

As these remains were found near a railway station, I would rather speculate that these remains are dumped parts that were recovered but later decided not to be returned by rail when the rest of the wreckage from one or more aircraft wrecks were returned to the repair system.

Regards,
Andreas B

[stephen f. polyak]

Yet the supposed '1' on the plate in no way resembles the numeral one written in the example either. What do the records tell us about W.Nr. 3122? That may resolve it nicely. Poor eyes and all, I still go with 3722 ;-)

[John Vasco]

Let's fly in the face of what's before our eyes. Never mind the fact that 3722 crashed in a completely different part of the Soviet Union. Never mind the fact that 3722 was an 'E-2' and the plate shows a 'C-2'. What do I know?

[Horst Weber]

Andreas !

For me as an origin German who went to primary school from 1964 to 1968, is this digit in question a "7" without any doubts. We learned in school writing a "7" like this, but with dash in it. A "1" was always straight and not curved, like a "7".

Best regards,

Horst Weber

[Franek Grabowski]

As a neighbour with similar writing habits I can confirm. This is definetelly 7, and it is common to write it both ways, with and without dash.

[Jim P.]

For WNr. 3122 I have (like Remi):

Bf 110C-4, 3122, Danzer, Gefr. Kurt, , I., 3.(Erg), NJG 1, , G9+UW, SE+ZF, , 30-May-42, Crew killed in crash during training flight., , Lw.Bfh.Mitte/Nachtjagd, Gen.Qu.6.Abt. (mfm #6)-Vol.9; Balss, Deutsche Nachtjagd, p.49, Mankau/Petrick, Messerschmitt Bf 110, Me 210 & Me 410, p.324; Menke, Schwaikheim bei Winnenden (Württemburg), 100%, H, Bf Gefr. Gerhard Renkwitz, , Messerschmitt AG at Augsburg in Jan-40