Another wreck of Bf110

[FPSOlkor]

Any data available?

[Tomislav Haramincic]

Hi,

Well, according to the Werknummer on ther armored plate this could be the remains of Bf 110E-2 WNr.3722 of 1./ZG26 which crashed due unknown reason on the 12. August 1941 near Lipowo. Pilot Uffz. Werner Hofmann was killed, the markings were 3U+JH (white J).

regards,
Tomislav

[FPSOlkor]

Thanks!
The aircraft was found near rail station Chudovo. The shields show that plane was a Bf 110 C-2??? Is it possible that armor was replaced from crashed plane to another one?

[stephen f. polyak]

My experience with sub-component/subassembly ID plates, like those shown here for the Bf 110, confirms that the model designation on a plate (e.g., C-1 or C-2) may sometimes not match the model designation of the host airplane (e.g., E-2). The reason for this is simple, certain standard parts were sometimes used/reused on various models without change to the (original) plate or plate entries. (Although, as shown here, the MIAG plate was updated, by restamping, from C-1 to C-2.) Given the many production, repair, and remanufacturing processes employed to produce and sustain large numbers of parts under deteriorating wartime circumstances, finding a part marked for one model on a different model comes as no surprise. Gotha and MIAG plates like these are both common on Bf/Me 110 airframe parts, but do not typically provide an airplane’s main W.Nr. The armor panel marked W.Nr. 3722 is a fortunate indicator of the likely origin of this wreckage. That said, yes, the armor also could have been used on another plane without having the W.Nr. revised.

[John Vasco]

Suggest you look at the W. Nr. as being 3122, which is in the 'C-2' block of W. Nr.. Remember, the difference between the handwritten numbers '1' and '7' in German at that time (if not up to present) is that the '1' is written like a '7', and a '7' had a small horizontal line through it to denote the difference.

The overstamping of 'C-1' to 'C-2' would simply mean that the improved electronics/radio system was fitted (see Petrick/Mankau) during the production run.

[FPSOlkor]

Originally Posted by Tomislav Haramincic

Hi,

Well, according to the Werknummer on ther armored plate this could be the remains of Bf 110E-2 WNr.3722 of 1./ZG26 which crashed due unknown reason on the 12. August 1941 near Lipowo. Pilot Uffz. Werner Hofmann was killed, the markings were 3U+JH (white J).

regards,
Tomislav

It seems that there is a claim from 159 IAP for 110 shot down in that vicinity at that day...

[Tomislav Haramincic]

Originally Posted by FPSOlkor

Thanks!
The aircraft was found near rail station Chudovo. The shields show that plane was a Bf 110 C-2??? Is it possible that armor was replaced from crashed plane to another one?

Hello all,

I've looked up the places on map and there seem to be a quite big distance between Chudovo (Novgorod region) and Lipowo (Ukraine). As the remains were found near a railway station, is it possible that these remains are from many different planes? Have you checked if there are other parts from other planes in the pile?
I'm not Bf 110 expert, so i can't really tell what the exact difference is between the C-2 and E-2 models is, and if parts from a C-2 can be used/reused on a E-2. Perahps someone knows more about this?

regards,
Tomislav

[John Vasco]

Tomislav,

The biggest external difference between the 'C' series and the 'E' was that the 'E' had a rectangular inlet on the nose between the two central MG 17s.
'C' variants were retro-fitted with parts as early as 1940 - photos exist of 'C's with armoured windscreens,for example. Internal armour could have been retro-fitted.

I still suggest pursuing the line of a Bf 110 C-2 with the W. Nr. 3122.

[stephen f. polyak]

John,

That is a very real possibility. Often (but not always), the written/hand-painted number "7" had a horizontal line or dash placed across the stem to distinguish it from a 1 with a "flagged" top. However, the number "1" was itself sometimes different in that the "flag" at top was longer and at a significant downward angle. To me, the second digit on the armor plate suggests a 7 more than a 1. I notice that the stem curves up and to the right and that the upper line is both short and horizontal.

I appreciate knowing what the C-1 to C-2 over-stamp denotes - I have several identically marked 110 plates.

r/Steve

[John Vasco]

OK, I think Tomislav has established beyond reasonable doubt that 3U+JH came down a considerable distance from where the remains of the Bf 110 which is the subject of this thread were found. Not the same aircraft.

Regarding the numerals '1' and '7', here's one example of what I am talking about. Handwritten correspondence from Balthasar Aretz, pilot of 2./Erpr. Gr. 210; III./ZG 26, and other units. Note how he writes the number '7'. This is just one of many examples I have in my research records.