The Eagles Over Europe Project

[RudiS]

Originally Posted by Andreas Brekken

RudiS - how can you be sure that this is the way this happened? Do you know that the buyer of the first photograph is the seller of the second one?
Andreas B

I don't know if the buyer of the first photo is the seller of the second one. But I am sure that the skull emblem wasn't on the original photo.

Let’s look at the facts:
1). The aircraft coded 5J+CH belonged to KG4, not to KG54.
2). Larry has about 20 photos in the EOE DB on which the skull emblem of KG54 is NOT on this aircraft.
3). The aircraft coded 5J+CH was lost in Poland in september 1939. By that time I./KG54 didn't use this version of the skull emblem, but a smaller version in white. This version of the skull emblem came in use after the invasion of Poland and before the beginning of the Norwegian campaign.

So what are the possiblities:
A). Someone put a new, non-existing version of the skull emblem of KG54 on a KG4 aircraft before or during the Poland campaign. The emblem looked so good that KG54 decided to replace all of its skull emblems on its aircraft by this one.
B). Someone put the KG54 skull emblem on this photo later during the war.
C). Someone put the KG54 skull emblem on this photo well after the war.

My opinion:
Possibility A is far fetched to say the least.
Possibility B is possible but unlikely. As far as I know censors would remove codes and emblems, not add them. And even if there was a reason for disguising this KG4 aircraft as a KG54 one, why leave the tactical code of KG4 on it?
So for me Possibility C is the only logical one.

Regards,
Rudi.

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

I'm trying to ID two Hs123 losses on 14 May 1940 in the general area of Saint-Germain, Belgium.

5.(S)/LG2 Henschel Hs123 A-1. Shot down by No. 607 Squadron Hurricanes near Saint-Germain (Belgium) at 10.55 a.m. FF Uffz Karl Lückel wounded. Aircraft 100% write-off.
5.(S)/LG2 Henschel Hs123 A-1. Shot down by No. 607 Squadron Hurricanes near Saint-Germain (Belgium)at 10.55 a.m. FF Lt Georg Ritter believed wounded. Aircraft 100% write-off.

There are two photos which may match these two losses.

1) One is on P.279 of Peter Cornwell's "The Battle of France Then and Now." This Hs123. landed on its wheels, is identified as down at "'le Gilbet' at Jausselette, E of Perwez," Belgium. This appears to be only a couple of miles N of St Germain, and is probably one of these two a/c. No code is visible and it does not appear to carry the 5 Staffel bear insignia.

2) Second is a photo of The L2+BN FL and captioned at "Gembloux," Belgium, that is about five miles W of St Germain. This plane wiped out its undercarriage on landing, and did have the 5 Staffel insignia and a fully visible code. The only photo that I know of can be found in the newly published "Batailles Aériennes: La RAF en France en 1939-1940, Part 2," P84 by Jean-Louis Roba.

These are very likely to be the two a/c in these two losses. I want to profile L2+BN for the EoE Project, and would appreciate any additional images of this a/c. Does anyone have any information that would confirm these locations, and which of the two pilots, Lt Georg Ritter and Uffz Karl Lückel, were associated with which Hs123?

Does anyone have any additional photo references or information on either of these two losses?

[GaraiB]

Hello Larry,

I attcahed the Hs123 aircraft photo
L2+BN from internet, ebay auction

Best regards,

Balazs

[Larry Hickey]

Balazs,

Thanx for posting this photo of L2+BM. The a/c is well known to me and will be one of our color profiles for 4 Staffel. This was an often-photographed a/c shot down S of Chaulnes, France, on 05.06.40 with Lt Siegfried Panten, died of his injuries. His grave is next to the aircraft.

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Here are the images of the two 5.(S)/LG2 Hs123s that may be the two a/c that I'm looking for additional information or images relating to losses on May 14, 1940.

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-rj7...-rj7PqTv-L.jpg

The first is clearly L2+BN.

http://ihra.smugmug.com/photos/i-F86...-F867Tg2-L.jpg

The second could be L2+DN or L2+ON,

Who can help?

Regards,

[Merlin]

Larry,

the visible "O" below the upper wing is the last letter of the Stammkennzeichen. I have seven different aircraft in my list ending with an "O", but none related to II./LG 2.

The aircraft letter of the unit code was usually painted below the lower wing within II./LG 2.

[Larry Hickey]

Gerhard,

Thanx for the note. I'd noticed the underwing a/c lettering on the excellent photos we have that show the crash of L2+BM on 05.06.40, and have presumed that that was the pattern that was being followed--the individual letters in black below the lower wingtip, just inboard of the lower-wing cross.

Thanx to Göran, off board we've now picked up another photo of L2+BN for the front half of the starboard side. Unfortunately, we can't see if the 5 Staffel insignia was used on that side as two people are blocking the view. I'm thinking that L2+BN was more likely the a/c of Lt Georg Ritter, but there is almost no why to prove it. I'm thinking that the officer might have likely been flying the "B" aircraft rather than one of the later letters. That's what happened with Lt. Panten with L2+BM in 4 Staffel. Pure speculation, however. Both will be profiles representing their respective Staffeln.

There are absolutely no useful landmarks from either direction of the photos of L2+BN that would help us confirm the "Gembloux" Belgium location. Don't know how we're going to "confirm" that location, unless we find other photos with the same location listing.

[obdl3945]

Hi, Larry...

I'm not sure if the attached is the same image as Göran has brought to your attention, but it's the only one I have. I believe it's the same aircraft given the broken branches lying on the ground a short distance from the left wing.

Regards,

Paul

[Larry Hickey]

Paul,

Yes, it is the same. Thanx for sending it though to make sure.

[Larry Hickey]

Hello,

Our EoE team is trying to ID all the abandoned 88 SQ Fairey Battles and wrecks at Mourmelon-le-Grand AF, France during mid-May, 1940. I have an excellent photo of RHoR abandoned in the bomb-damaged hangar there, and RHoL sitting damaged and abandoned outside the hangar. Can anyone provide SN for either of these aircraft?

Thanx for any assistance.