Bf 109 G5 110897 vs. G6 412627

[stephen f. polyak]

Hi TOCH,

I recently obtained a data plate marked as follows:

Gerat-Nr. 8-109.G6
Werk-Nr. 412627
Hersteller mcu

Courtesy of Mr. Jim Perry I have learned the following associated history for 412627:

“Bf 109G-6, 412627, n.n., , , Flzg.Überführ.G. 1, , , , , 26-Jul-44, Notlandung due to bad weather., , Lfl. 10, BA-MA Signatur RL 2 III/780, p.34, , südwestlich Sonain bei Reims, 20%, H, , This was one of those units used to ferry aircraft to the front. Since it was only a 20% loss it may yet show up as a loss for another unit.”

Close examination of the plate, however, shows that some of the numbers listed above were stamped over other earlier entries.

The other entries appear to be:

Gerat-Nr. 8-109.G5
Werk-Nr. 110897 (I’m certain of all numbers except the 8 and the 9.)
Hersteller mcu

I welcome any and all thoughts regarding the other entries. Does this WNr. block (i.e., 110xxx) connect with the G5 series? Were any G5s rebuilt as a G6s (or perhaps the data plate alone was simply reused/corrected)? Is there a history for 110897 or any 110xx7 aircraft?

Thanks,
Steve

[Tomislav Haramincic]

Hello Stephen,

Thats a very interesting data plate, I must say. Both aircraft (WNr.412627 and WNr.110xx7) were produced by ERLA, so the Hersteller code mcu fitts. Both WNr. blocks, 4126xx and the last part of WNr.110xxx were produced at approx. the same time. An interesting fact is that the block 11 went only to WNr.110576, so your WNr.110897 was never actually produced.
Now I guess there are two possibilities - first, that as you said, the fourth and fifth digits are not 8 nad 9; second, which I think is more likely, that a already numbered but unfinished fuselage, originaly preproduced for the block 11, was used in the production of the block 41.

Rasmussen, a member of this Board, is I think the best expert who could solve this mystery.

best regards,
Tomislav

[stephen f. polyak]

Thanks Tomislav.

With the aid of magnification optics and further examination, I hope to confirm the suspect fourth and fifth WNr. digits (i.e., 8 & 9).

It also appears that the a G5 entry was changed to G6. Was the 110xxx series built as G5s or G6s?

Will try to get a picture of the plate on the forum later in the week.

Best regards,
Steve

[John Beaman]

Originally Posted by stephen f. polyak

Thanks Tomislav.


It also appears that the a G5 entry was changed to G6. Was the 110xxx series built as G5s or G6s?

Both, but overwhelmingly as G-5s

[Rasmussen]

Not both, in the 110xxx-batch were produced G-5s ... exclusive.

It's right too that wasn't delivered (produced) an G-5 with the W.Nr.110 897 and it wasn't planned to built such an W.Nr. The last "regular" G-5 left the factory im March 1944, some in May or June (most of this a/c's were repaired in Erla VII Antwerpen after the "Big Week" raid in February 1944). The next and last "regular" G-5s followed in August 1944. The mentioned G-6, W.Nr.412 627 was produced in May/June 1944.

Would be an possibility that Erla stored an "old" G-5 fuselage (or components) for 2 month to use in the following G-6 production ... but I have my problems with this thought because they hadn't enough space after the February raid (but nothing is impossible, of course).

Would be nice to see the fourth and fifth digit ... may be it's possible to say more.

Best wishes
Rasmussen

[stephen f. polyak]

Thank you Rasmussen,

A closer look at the plate now suggests the following W.Nr. possibilities: 110297 or 110397; 110897 has been eliminated.

I believe that 110397 is the more likely. However, the over-stamped number (6) prevents positive identification of the original/earlier fourth digit. The fifth digit is almost certainly 9. The other digits are positive.

So, do these 110- numbers also fit the G-5 series, and is there known history for these two airplanes?

Thanks to all for hanging in there with me on the search for the story behind the plate.

Best regards,
Steve

PS: Picture to follow . . .

[Tomislav Haramincic]

Hello,

I have a loss report for WNr.110397, as a G-6
18.02.45 II./Erg.KG(J) Uffz. Josef Krämer (†), Motorstörung - Absturz, Strausberg - 100% (G-6)

No details for WNr.110297.

best regards,
Tomislav

[John Beaman]

[quote=Rasmussen;54947]

Not both, in the 110xxx-batch were produced G-5s ... exclusive. /quote]
----------------------------------

Hi Rasmussen:

I have 11 G-6s spread across the 110xxx range from various units. It would not be unusual for a clerk to make a mistake in listing a loss, but not this many spread over so many units. I think some G-6s were mixed in the production block(s).

John

[Rasmussen]

Originally Posted by John Beaman

I have 11 G-6s spread across the 110xxx range from various units. It would not be unusual for a clerk to make a mistake in listing a loss, but not this many spread over so many units. I think some G-6s were mixed in the production block(s).

Hi John,

I'm really sure that the Erla clerks didn't an mistake because I have an document about the consequences from such mistakes. One of the Erla clerks changed in a weekly statement from Erla to RLM the W.Nr. of an G-5 with a W.Nr. of an G-6. Because this was an loss from more than 1000,- RM he got an strong warning with the announcement of ridicolous consequences in the next time. I'd guess this wasn't so by an clerk reported the losses. So I believe my Erla documents more than a loss report, excuse me.

Best wishes
Rasmussen

[Rasmussen]

Originally Posted by Tomislav Haramincic

No details for WNr.110297.

It's simple ... the W.Nr. wasn't used.

Best wishes
Rasmussen