Yet ANOTHER German nickname for the IL 2...

[Boandlgramer]

oh mann,
rasmussen.
das wort schlächter in verbindung mit einem flugzeug ist gewiss als abkürzung für schlachtflugzeuge verwendet worden.
so wurden eben diese flugzeuge genannt, die sich unmittelbar in das schlachtgeschehen einmischten. damit sind aber nicht bombenflugzeuge gemeint.

[Christer Bergström]

On 24 November 1941, the German fighter pilot Lt. Hermann Graf of 9./JG 52 made the following note in his diary:

"Dabei handelte es sich um meine erste IL 2, also um einen von den gefährlichen Apparaten, zu denen die Landser 'Schlächter' sagen."

I think both Boandlgramer and Rasmussen may be right, but in this context, I think Rasmussen's interpretation is right. It would make no sense if Graf had meant to say:

"This was one of the dangerous aircraft which the German ground troops call 'ground-attack aircraft'."

I think it makes more sense to assume that what Graf meant was something like this:

"This was one of the dangerous aircraft which the German ground troops call 'butchers'."

[Rasmussen]

Oh mann,

boandlgramer.

"gewiß" --- dabei gewesen??? Gewiß. Was aber am falschen Wortstamm auch nichts ändert.

(an German reaction on a german answer - I think uninteresting for our English speaking friends ;-) )

Thanks Christer, an wonderful example for that what I meant.

[Dénes Bernád]

A (semi) off-topic question: why was the Fw 190 called in English 'The Butcher Bird' (see, for example, subtitle of Green and Swanborough's book)? I think the name originated for similar reasons...

[NickM]

Denes:

As I recall, the nickname for the FW, "Butcher Bird" is referring to a small (probably smaller than a dove), compact, aggressive carnivorous bird known as a Shrike; it has been known to attack & overpower rodents, small birds, snakes, lizards, frogs, etc...it has this charming little habit of impaling it's prey on thorns and sharp twigs; the 'hanging meat' image is what spawned the nickname 'butcher bird'; so no doubt someone felt the FW was a great example of being a potent weapon in a small compact package & no doubt thought naming after the Shrike was appropriate;


NickM

[Nick Beale]

Originally Posted by Dénes Bernád

A (semi) off-topic question: why was the Fw 190 called in English 'The Butcher Bird' (see, for example, subtitle of Green and Swanborough's book)? I think the name originated for similar reasons...

I'd always understood that it was a translation of the name that Focke-Wulf gave the aircraft: "Wuerger."

[Boandlgramer]

how is that bird called in english ?

[Ruy Horta]

However you argue it, German and English are related languages and the root word "Schlacht" relates to "slaughter." In English, a slaughterman kills animals, a butcher cuts up the meat from there on. Obviously the two trades overlapped.

Although I am not a linguist, German and Dutch are pretty similar, more so than English and German.

Schlacht may be more closely related to Schlagen or to hit (we in dutch have slaan and slag, to hit and strike - the latter corresponds perfectly with ground attack or groundstrike).

Not field of slaughter, but field of battle (hitting field).

Even the English Slain may be more closely related to hitting than slaying.

hitting, striking, slaying or slaughtering all the same root

[John Beaman]

Boandlgramer :

You are right. The "butcher bird", which is what Wurger means, is called the Shrike in England and America. They are called this because they catch their prey, usually large insects or the occasional mouse, and "store" it by stricking on a thorn bush or locust tree. Hence, the name butcher.

[Boandlgramer]

Originally Posted by Rasmussen

Oh mann,

boandlgramer.

"gewiß" --- dabei gewesen???

freilich, ich war genauso dabei wie du.alter frontkämpfer

noch eine kleine anmerkung zum "schwarzen tod".
jan boger beschreibt da in seinem buch spezial/elite einheiten(einige nahmen am WW2 teil )
da wird die sowjetische marineinfanterie, die " Morskaya Pyechota " von den deutschen landsern " schwarzer tod " genannt.

evtl. wurden ja noch mehr "schwarzer tod" genannt. wer weiss , wer weiss.