Albacores on 11.09.40

[robert]

Alex,

thanks a lot for you help!



Regards

Robert

[Blenheim]

In the interests of accuracy perhaps we ought to record that 235 Squadron was escorting the Albacores, not the other way round.

[Alex Smart]

Hello "Blenheim"


Yes quite right Blenheims were the escort.

My error,there were six of each.

Any idea as to the serial numbers and crew names of the Blenheims that returned safe ?

All for now

Thanks

Alex

[Alex Smart]

Hi ,

Maybe not the right place , but does anyone know where these Invasion Barges were heading for . Were they on a training exercise , what became of the troops aboard. OR was this the start of the real invasion ?

I have read that many German troops were brought ashore or washed ashore and that many Hostpitals were full of German troops that were very badly burned.

Did the Invasion actually start on the 11th ?

Alex

[Blenheim]

Dear Alex,

Sorry, no can do on those that returned safely. I am researching the Blenheim losses and to attempt to compile a list of the sorties each aircraft did without anything untoward happening, which is what an answer to your question would entail, is a task far too large and complicated for me. In fact I'm not even certain that it would be possible but am prepared to be proven wrong.

All the best,

[Laurent Rizzotti]

Originally Posted by Alex Smart

Hi ,

Maybe not the right place , but does anyone know where these Invasion Barges were heading for . Were they on a training exercise , what became of the troops aboard. OR was this the start of the real invasion ?

I have read that many German troops were brought ashore or washed ashore and that many Hostpitals were full of German troops that were very badly burned.

Did the Invasion actually start on the 11th ?

Alex

All along the French coast, every time the RAF came in this period and attacked at sea, they were rumors of heavy german losses and many burned men in hospitals. So far I have never seen a proof of any of these cases being more than a rumor.

Also it was usual for people living in French town bombed by the RAF to believe that the target was a precise building used by German officers and that most of them were killed by the raid. In night raids the targets were ports, stations or factories but never hotels in the middle of a town. And the real German casualties (if any) were far lower than rumors.

I don't know any German report about this attack but the report of the 16 Armee for 12 Sep shows:

"In the night 11./12. bomb attacks on Dünkirchen (10 Stormboats, damaged, 20 small flame-throwers destroyed), Nieuport, Ostende, Zeebrügge, Vlissingen. Small fires in Ostende, 2 dead, harbour-commander injured."

But this is probably the result of Bomber Command attacks.

[Alex Smart]

hello Laurent,


Thak you for the info it is welcome.

But from what I have read it seems that these invasion barges were out at sea, some at least 5miles NW of calais .

Interstingly you record Twenty small flame throwers destroyed, I can only assume that these were small ships of some kind fitted out with flame thrower weaponry.

The two killed and one injured I again assume relate to the Ostend action

That would fit with the casualties (Ships crew and troops ) being badly burned that I have read about. There would I expect be fire on the sea due to these craft being destroyed and so other troops and crews from the ten damaged Stormboats if in the water would not haveescaped being burned too.

I wonder how many men were in these ten stormboats and twenty small boats, quite a few I expect. So maybe the reports were not just rumor after all.

night

Alex

[Juha]

Hello
I interpred Laurent's message that the boats and flame-throwers were damaged and destroyed in Dunkerque. Easiest way to explain the flame-throwers is that they were destroyed when a magazine where they were stored was hit.
I know nothing on Stormboats but Sturmboot is a small boat most suitable to river crossing, powered by an outboard engine, carrying c. a rifle squad or 10 men, driven by a pioneere. Maybe the best way to translate its name is an assault boat.

HTH but maybe only a wrong track
Juha

[Laurent Rizzotti]

It is also my understanding that the loss reported occured in ports. The fact that the Wermacht reports show no big losses at sea is no proof it didn't happen but reduces the probability. The same reports report attacks on convoys on other days.

The same reports also show incidents like mortars exploding during training and killing/wounding some soldiers, or accidental fires that destroy magazines and killed some tens of horses, so it is very probable that any heavy loss of troops will have been reported.

To read more, go to http://www.wwiidaybyday.com/ and then to the 'Daily reports' section.
These reports came from German books listing original WWII documents. The main purpose of the book is to show all moves and orders of Wermacht divisions but they included very detailed reports about bombings of Germany and occupied countries. I don't remember the book but remember reading part of it in a bookshop some years ago. The price was 100-150 euros, so definetly out of my reach at the time. The books are in chronological order and I read the fall 1940 one. I wondered at the time if the books about the 1943-1945 period were so much detailed to report the bombing incidents in Germany.

On the other hand, the fact that there is no report at this date leaves a chance it was lost. And it is also possible that an empty barge convoy was attacked and so only Kriegsmarine reports have the data.

You can post a query about this convoy on this forum:
http://www.warsailors.com/phorum/list.php?f=1
The title of the forum is 'Norwegian merchant fleet' but it is covering all merchant fleet (and militarized auxiliaires) for WWII (and WWI). Many knowledegeable people use this forum and some of them use original Kriegsmarine KTB so one may have reports about this action. Other are tracking the fate of barges and other small ships and may have in their database losses or damages in this attack.

[Alex Smart]

Hi Laurent,


Thank you I will look up those web sites you kindly provided.

Thanks

Alex