he177 losses query

[Stig Jarlevik]

Gentlemen

We have a problem

Brian (Cull)
What is your sources for 5 down on the night of 6-7 June? Comparing your list with the one quoted by Peter from Griehl's book we now have 6 down!

If Brian (Bines) statement is correct the 5th down could be either 550197 (listed as lost on the 8th) or 550204 (listed as lost on the 7th and I suppose the best candidate)

You also state the code for 550117 was F8+IN while Griehl say F8+HN. How come?

Cheers
Stig

[Chris Goss]

The problem we have is any losses before midnight would be down as 6 Jun; after 7 Jun. Thus I have:

7 Jun: MH/550206/1/KG 40/Mueller
7 Jun: FK/550204/2/KG 40/Hein (shot down & crashed at St Laurent)
7 Jun: KK/550197/2/KG 40/Timm
7 Jun: LK/535731/2/KG 40/Bernrieder
7 Jun: 5/KG 40/Mueller
7 Jun: 5/KG 40/Hanke

There are 2 losses for 8 Jun

Trouble is II/KG 40 did not list Wk Nr etc

[Brian Bines]

Stig,

Difficult these KG40 losses as the 7th could either be 6/7 or 7/8th, wn 550117 has code F8+HN hand notated on the NVM under date 7-6-44. WN 550206 crew of Oblt Muller is dated 7.6.44 but the K report says it was shot down between midnight and 0030hrs on 8-6-44.
RAF claims for the period for He177's.are generally in the 0030 to 0400hrs timescale. On the 6/7th June claims were made at 0125, 0256, 0314 and 0349 hrs while on 7/8 June claims were made at 0105, 0125 and 0155 hrs. Against this NVM's have 8 He177's lost on the two nights 550211, 550021 are dated as 8-6-44 550206 is dated 7-4-44 but the K says it was shot down on the 8th (see above), while those dated as the 7th are 550112, 550117, 550197, 535731 (note date changed on NVM from 8th to 7th), 550204 fell to enemy 'Jagern' (not noted as Nachtjager) at St. Laurent bei Marchesoire on the 7-6-44. I do not know if this indicates it was caught by day fighters.
I do not know if this helps but any clarification appreciated,

Regards

Brian Bines

[Chris Goss]

The problem with He 177 losses are the inaccuracies with dates etc. First of all, there was a day claim for a He 177-1/Lt S C Wilkerson of 361st FG. Another problem is some He 177s were lost without crew casualties-12-13 Jun 44, a 4/KG 40 crew which was later shot down 9 Jul 44 was shot down by a Mosquito of 410 Sqn-according to the crew, the only casualty was Uffz Erich Richter but there is no mention of him in the NVM!