Grislawski or Ihlefeld

[yogybär]

There were no shared kills in the Luftwaffe.

If you send me a scan of the relevant german text, I can translate it into english.

EDIT: Maybe on of the germans misidentified his victim. Do you know if there was any other allied loss at that time? If not, it certainly looks like a double or even triple claim.

[neil c]

yogybar,

I don't have the times but there are 7 MACRs for P-47s on the 14th though it's hard to imagine a German pilot confusing a P-47 with a P-51.

On the other hand, Ihlefeld claimed a Spitfire 2 minutes after his Mustang claim, so I would assume there were Spitfires in the area. Possibly Ihlefeld or Grislawski made the error in identity, a Mustang instead of a Spitfire.

One thing I do know for certain is that Lt. Canner and Capt. Rusten were not with any Spitfires on that mission nor did they encounter any. Capt. Rusten told me that they were surprised to run into the German fighters that day, "They weren't supposed to be there" he told me.

It could be just a matter of over reporting claims.

A member here has offered his assistance in translating the pages for me but I thank you for offering.

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by neil c

I don't have the times but there are 7 MACRs for P-47s on the 14th though it's hard to imagine a German pilot confusing a P-47 with a P-51.

You would be surprised!

[neil c]

Maybe, but it wasn't like they were far away and could have made such an error. P-47s don't look anything like a P-51 and they were right on Lt. Canner's tail.

"Five or six were on my tail. Three were actually firing on me" was Canner's statement from his E & E Report.

Does anyone know how I might be able to locate mission summaries from JG1 regarding 14 July 1944? I was told a couple of years ago that they are in private hands and that possibly one of you could help me.

Thanks,

Neil

[Andy Fletcher]

Originally Posted by neil c

Maybe, but it wasn't like they were far away and could have made such an error. P-47s don't look anything like a P-51 and they were right on Lt. Canner's tail.

Neil

Hi Neil,

Franek is right. Aircraft were constantly mis-identified, even ones that seem quite different in appearance. Pilots of all nationalities were guilty of this. Also remember it wasn't uncommon for friendly aircraft to be engaged due to mis-identification.

Best Regards

Andy Fletcher

[neil c]

Thanks Franek and Andy.

I respect and appreciate your views and feedback. I know that errors in identification occurred on all sides. Maybe I'm trying to give more credit than I should to Ihlefeld and Grislawski due to their experience. Who knows. In the heat of battle, mistakes happen.

I'm just trying to cover all bases available to find out which one of them shot my father down for a book I'm writing. It's not a big deal but if the info is out there' I'd like to find it.

For anyone interested, the story is due to be published in FlyPast. Not certain but I believe the December issue.

Thanks guys!

Neil

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by neil c

Maybe I'm trying to give more credit than I should to Ihlefeld and Grislawski due to their experience. Who knows. In the heat of battle, mistakes happen.

Neil
A little bit time ago, on the old forum, we have had a lengthy discussion trying to identify an aircraft visible on a guncam still. Despite armchair conditions, good knowledge of silhouettes, and plenty of time available, it was never 100% identified, guesses being Fw 190, Ju 87, Me 109 or Ta 152.
Also, quite recently I have seen some guncam films, and sometimes I needed a replay to assure as to the type visible.
In the heat of combat you would not have that chance.