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Old 29th September 2008, 13:19
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CJE CJE is offline
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Munich: the road to war

Seventy years ago, on 29 Sept. 1938, a so-called "Peace conference" was to fix up the fate of the Sudeten.
It will only open the road to WW2.
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Old 29th September 2008, 18:26
Michal Michal is offline
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Re: Munich: the road to war

I have written this year several articles about Munich Crisis, mainly based on recollections those who are still living. Interesting to hear stories. For Czech Society it is stigma still today. There is no clear response if Czechoslovakia should defended himself or not. Although according to last results of opinions around 50 % of nowadays inhabitants would prefer war than short and useless peace. Similarities between years 1938 and 1968 are. Bad politicians? Bad citizens? Bad allies? For me it was an other view on 1938 mentality when I red in archives War Diaries of Air, Infantry and Tanks Units. There were will to fight and defend country between citizens of Czech nationality. Bit different were will between citizens of Slovak and Rusin Nationality and quite (except of German born Jews and antinazist emigreés) negative between citizens of Poland, German and Hungary Nationalities. There is clearly seen how most of citizens of Polish, German and Hungary Nationalities didn´t enter to military service after mobilization. Although couple of studies is, I think we donť have still good study about both - Czechoslovak and German prepartion for war. Included detailed Orders of Battle. Those whose I sew, are not complete from both sides. Maybe the Czechoslovak OOB are bit better but we might still lot of work to do.
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Old 30th September 2008, 00:00
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Re: Munich: the road to war

I think it is important to note that Czechoslovakia was seen as a pro-Soviet country, and mentioned anti-nazis were actually communists or communizing leftists. This certainly influenced politics towards the country, as it was the Soviet Union, considered the worst threat to peace.
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Old 30th September 2008, 15:23
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: Munich: the road to war

Quote:
Originally Posted by Franek Grabowski View Post
I think it is important to note that Czechoslovakia was seen as a pro-Soviet country...
Quite so. Czechoslovakia was regarded, among others, as "the unsinkable aircraft carrier" of the Soviet Union.
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Old 30th September 2008, 19:04
Graham Boak Graham Boak is offline
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Re: Munich: the road to war

Sounds like the sort of slander made against any democratic country by Goebbels, rather than a measured description of a nation in a very awkward position.
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Old 30th September 2008, 20:51
Dénes Bernád Dénes Bernád is offline
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Re: Munich: the road to war

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Originally Posted by Graham Boak View Post
Sounds like the sort of slander made against any democratic country by Goebbels, rather than a measured description of a nation in a very awkward position.
It may sound like it to you, Graham, I don't know, but the fact that Czechoslovakia was an ally of the Soviet Union is a historical fact. Certainly, this isn't the invention of Goebbels.
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Old 30th September 2008, 23:23
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Re: Munich: the road to war

Czechoslovakia and Soviet Union had a treaty of mutual military aid, if I recall correctly. Poland was pressed to allow Soviet troops to march trough Polish territory, but refused, in fear that they will not leave. As noted previously, at the time Soviet Union was considered the main threat to the peace. The situation in Germany was not clear, and the general perception was not as negative, as it may seem now.
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Old 1st October 2008, 08:47
Michal Michal is offline
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Re: Munich: the road to war

France was for Czechoslovakia an Ally Number One. Czechoslovakian-Soviet Treaty was signed after French Politicians agreed. The Higher Czechoslovakian Politicians were not united if accepted Soviet Help or not. If somebody saying that Czechoslovakia was biggest Soviet Ally than I would like to write, that it was Czechoslovakian Legion who fought to bolsheviks 1918-1920 and made the trip from Ukraine to Vladivostok. Most of Czechoslovak officers in 30s in High Position were former so called Legionnairies who pretty well know what are Bolsheviks for. Agreement between Czechoslovakia and Soviet Union clearly states that Soviet Help will be possible if France says yes. Czechoslovakian Army (mainly Air Force) was prepared to accept French Military Help (France Military Organization was a pattern for new-built Czechoslovakian Army and connections were really were close), morally, politically and mainly technically. Czechoslovakian Army was not fully prepared to accept Soviet Planes. There would be no trouble to transfer Soviet Plane to Czechoslovakia When Soviet Union wanted for Poland and Romania to agree with transfer flights over their territories, it was clearly impossible. But supplies of Soviet-built Planes Tupolev SB-2 (in Czechoslovak Air Force Avia B-71) regularly came through - in that time - common Czechoslovakian - Soviet Border. According to documents from Meeting Czechoslovak HQ and Politicians in September 1938 is clearly visible how big was fear of destabilization of suverenity of Czechoslovakia when Soviets came to the country. Yes, Soviet Union wanted to help but for other reasons (similar to later occupation of part of Poland and of Baltic States). Czechoslovakian Ministry of Interior was afraid of Czechoslovakian Communists because they against Czechoslovak Constitution didn´t speak about independent Czechoslovakia but fought for so called Communist "International" which in fact would be integration of Czechoslovakia into Soviet Union. That´s why Czechoslovakian Communist didn´t want to defend independency. Only in late 30s when situation allowed they openly claimed about their will to defend counry with support of Soviet Union. And yes, slogan about "Czechoslovakia as earth-based Soviet aircraft-carrier" was produced by Goebbels Propaganda. It is not any joke but historically proofed information.
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Old 1st October 2008, 15:01
Franek Grabowski Franek Grabowski is offline
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Re: Munich: the road to war

Michal
To the above I could add a very good anti-Soviet cooperation of Czechoslovak and Polish intelligencies, which may have influenced a treaty on handing over of Zaolzie (which was not a result of Munich, as is commonly believed). Nonetheless, there is no point in the mentioning of several people in Czechoslovakia, who did not admire Soviet Union. It is the problem of how Czechoslovakia was percepted in surrounding countries, and policy of ruling party. I must add that even later during WWII and post-war, Czechoslovakia was seen pro-Soviet.
PS I recall reading about desperate attempts to block Munich by corrupting British politicians. Perhaps bribes were too small?
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Old 1st October 2008, 21:19
Michal Michal is offline
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Re: Munich: the road to war

Yes, Franek, you are right. Exile-President Edvard Beneš Policy during WW2 was oriented to both sides - Western Allies and Soviet Union. It is true that his role in Soviet-Polish Connection during WW2 isn´t that for what Czechs (or Czechoslovaks, it depends of angle of view) could be proud. Beneš admittings of Katyn Murders was notorious. And of course, situation was rapidly changed. In 1940 in France started to talks between Czechoslovak and Polish Exile Politicians about possibly Post-War Union (or better Confederation) of Czechoslovakia and Poland. There was also an attempt from Polish Side to create Confederation of three States - together Czechoslovakia, Poland with Lithuania. There were many reasons that this Confederation was not created. Stalin of course didn= t want to allow such Block which would come against his plans. And, in my opinion, Beneš choose to play game with both sides and tried to have the best from both.

...really, it could be for long discussion and maybe sometimes contemporary Czech, Slovak, Polish, Ukrainian, Belorusan and Lithuanian Historians will make some serious historical Conference about all what happened between world wars...maybe...

...and about bribes I didn´t hear anything...but in face of our mentality, would not be suprised...
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