NARA Seattle

[byron-]

Wher is the T...... number, without it is nothing to order by NARA

[Jaap Woortman]

Originally Posted by Kari Lumppio

Hello!

Some of the descriptions do look familiar. I believe these are available as microfilms but you have not included the roll number(s). If I had to guess they are from group T-321 and roll numbers 12x or around that. I have some rolls with nearby code.

Kari

Kari is right. I did some research on this and found out that T321(B) is the guide to look for. In this guide at four pages is information about German aircraft losses in the period 1944-1945. See survey below and attachment.

Is this 60% of the missing part of the "Holy Grail"?

I have ordered the roll 112 and have just received it. It looks like it are radio messages received with information about losses of the Luftwaffe in the mentioned period. Sofar I have seen 6 frames of the final part of the filmroll.

Jaap


ITEM DATES ROLL FRAME
OKL/416 1944/08/01-1945/03/30 112 0000528
OKL - Gen. Qu. 6. Abteilung.
General Quartermaster Branch 6 reports on aircraft losses through accidents and in combat.

Page 60

ITEM DATES ROLL FRAME
OKL/402a-b 1945/02/16-1945/04/01 210 0000002
OKL- Generalquartiermeister.
German Air Force Quartermaster daily reports of air personnel casualties and aircraft losses on all fronts.
Page 125

ITEM DATES ROLL FRAME
OKL/416 1944/08/01-1945/03/30 212 0000004
OKL-Luftwaffenfftihrungsstab Ic.
German Air Force Quartermaster Branch 6 reports on aircraft and flight personnel losses based on intercepted enemy radio messages. (This item is also reproduced on T321, roll 112, frames 528-694.)
Page 127

ITEM DATES ROLL FRAME
OKL/441-442 1944/08/01-1945/01/31 217 0000003
OKL-Generalquartiermeister.
Daily casualty lists for German Air Force personnel and parachute units on various fronts.

Page 130

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, guys.

Very interesting indeed.

I have noted that the finding aids are listed as being GG24, GG92 and T176/rolls 15 and 30-31.

Can anyone please provide me with a straight forward way of ordering things from NARA. Tried a few years ago, but frankly gave up... it apparently took them about 6 months to give me an answer...

For example the above references, how should they appear on an order form?

Well, fired away an email to the NARA, and will hope for an answer!

Regards,
Andreas B

[RT]

Is this 60% of the missing part of the "Holy Grail"?

I have ordered the roll 112 and have just received it. It looks like it are radio messages received with information about losses of the Luftwaffe in the mentioned period. Sofar I have seen 6 frames of the final part of the filmroll.

Looks really interesting , wonder why just now discovered, is the quality of docs like your model Jaap or bad copy ??
If you need some money for the other rolls..

Remi

[Jaap Woortman]

Andreas, I will send you a PM about the ordering procedure.

Remi, thanks for your offer but money is not my problem. See the present $ versus € rate. Time is my main problem the next two, three months. We are finallizing our publication about the history of the Dutch airfields during WWII. It has to go to the printer in March 2009.
An other problem is my HP Scanjet 3800 scanner. I have used it for scanning microfilms for the first time but I am not quit happy with the results sofar. As you can see. I am learning but will also have a look for a professional reader/scanner/printer in our local Hist. Centre.
I had the idea of digitizing the film and put it on a DVD. NARA has this roll only on film.

The reason why now is simple. I was triggered two months ago by some remarks in this thread and recognized the OKL/123 way of coding. Next step was looking at NARA for a guide with OKL information. In doing so I have found more interesting guides and information(rolls) e.g. for my research for Dutchmen serving in the Luftwaffe. For our project about a/c losses in the Netherlands I have given priority to roll 112 of the T 321 guide. I ordered the roll at November 3rd and have just received it. The first results are interesting enough for letting you folks know.

Jaap

[Hans Mcilveen]

Andreas,

Ordering at the NARA is not difficult, once you get the hang of it. All is done online.

Microfilm:
to download the two finding guides GG24 and GG92 go to https://eservices.archives.gov/orderonline/ press the blue button “Microfilm”.
Enter “T321” in the top search box. Click through on the result page and you will find the two PDF files on the right. Determine what to order and then, on the same detail page, click on “Continue to order” to order individual rolls. You will have to create an online account to do this. You can pay with a credit card.

Paper items or asking questions:
NARA apparently no longer responds to requests sent to inquire@..., you will have to use the online forms. Again, go to https://eservices.archives.gov/orderonline/ but press the blue button “Find & Request”. This will lead you to a wizard where you will have to select a generic topic and subtopic before you can enter your question or request for quotation. Your query will be dealt with online but you will be alerted to a response by e-mail.

I hope this is of some use.

Regards,

Hans

[philippe1]

here in belgium there is a company who can make from microfilms pictures but i have to go there to figure out their price its depending if they canb do it automaticly or manual.
my micro's comming from NASM are 3,5 cm wide
i have a contact in the area but he is not doing it for free the avantage of this guy he is taking his time to search it and you will have it faster than on regular way.

[Richard T. Eger]

Dear All,

This is a very interesting thread.

About a year ago, I tried to order a microfilm roll online from NARA II, but the software failed to function properly. I ended up calling and an apologetic person on the other end said yes, they were generally called to take the order information, recognizing the online ordering issue. As I recall, one roll cost me $65, which is pretty steep. It took maybe 2 months to get the reel.

I was very interested in the comment about NARA now being willing to supply the microfilm as a DVD, which would resolve the problem of locating a decent microfilm reader/printer or trying to scan the microfilm, as Jaap has tried to do with less than stellar results.

Creating a decent microfilm reader/printer today should be a slam dunk and maybe some company out there has risen to the task. However, I am not aware of such and the best that I know of is a Canon90 that does a decent job with text, more or less, and a pretty lousy job with photos.

The Canon90 I use is at the NASM Garber archives and it has its own quirks. Best copies are made near the end of the toner cartridge's life. A fresh cartridge won't print as darkly or capture as much detail from the microfilm and, as with Jaap's example, that detail can be pretty marginal.

There is also an ongoing issue with microfilm/film scanners, that being that you must, in most cases, cut up your precious reel into short lengths to scan the film. If willing to do this, likely a dedicated film scanner is the best bet. An alternative might be a lighted lid scanner, which would allow you to keep your reel intact. I once saw a researcher doing exactly that with 35 mm movie film at NARA II with pretty good results.

If anyone has more information on the DVD option from NARA, please do share it here.

Regards,
Richard

[yogybär]

Originally Posted by Hans Mcilveen

Microfilm:
to download the two finding guides GG24 and GG92 go to https://eservices.archives.gov/orderonline/ press the blue button “Microfilm”.

[...]

Hans

One question: Is it possible to get microfilms in a digital shape? I don't know how to handle that microfilm-stuff...

[Andreas Brekken]

Hi, Jaap

I have access to a Canon MS 300 and can scan all kinds of microfilm.

The most interesting roll seems to be the 112/212 roll, however the intercepted enemy radio traffic info leads me to believe that this in reality are western allies or Soviet union losses, and not German ones. We will see...

It would be interesting to see if the data on the 210 roll are the standard reports, or if it is simply the same as RL 2 III 767, RL 2 III 1197 and RL 2 III 1199.

Regards,
Andreas B