Hartmann had fight with Pokryshkin? Who has beaten Hartman?

[IgorSamarsky]

Who has the facts about defeat Hartmann from Russian pilots?
Who has the facts of fight russian ace Pokryshkin with concrete pilot Luftwaffe?
How pilots concerned to the Russian attendants in air - stations?
I shall be grateful for the information
Please write to: iusamarsky@gmail.com or here.

[Nikita Egorov]

Hartmann and Pokryshkin could have met each other in the air only in April-May 1943 or August-November 1943. For this periods their encounters are not detected, at least with any tangible results.

"Blond knight" is far from being enough for writing a feature film on Hartmann and JG52 activities...

PS. As regards to atrocities, I think that nobody here is eager to be plunged into a protracted discussion on this topic, too many lances have been already broken over that before...

[kennethklee]

On a related topic, I know matching up who fought who in aerial combat is often very difficult and often impossible. However, this thread prompted another question for me in this vein. In the Toliver-Constable book "The Blond Knight of Germany", a combat is described in which Hartmann attacks and shoots down a Soviet fighter who is on his wingman's 6 and about to shoot him down. The Soviet fighter pilot, who was ejected on impact of the crash, is described as a captain and carrying a large amount of money and the narrative suggests this is someone of some prominence. Provided this combat and its particulars are true, does anyone know who the vanquished pilot was? Was he a Soviet ace? Again, I totally understand that identification is difficult and may be impossible.

Thanks much,
Kenneth

[NickM]

POSSIBLY, Bob Goebel may have shot down Hartman over Romania, per an article in a now forgotten aviation mag; Per 'Blond Knight' Hartman dodged & weaved 'til he ran out of gas with up to a dozen P51s on his tail & then he bailed out; Goebel's impression was he & his wingies were chasing a lone ME; Goebel got a good pattern of hits on the ME & out jumped the pilot; The Article somehow connected date, place & time.
NM

[David N]

Originally Posted by NickM

POSSIBLY, Bob Goebel may have shot down Hartman over Romania, per an article in a now forgotten aviation mag; Per 'Blond Knight' Hartman dodged & weaved 'til he ran out of gas with up to a dozen P51s on his tail & then he bailed out; Goebel's impression was he & his wingies were chasing a lone ME; Goebel got a good pattern of hits on the ME & out jumped the pilot; The Article somehow connected date, place & time.
NM

The article was in the August 2006 issue of Flight Journal. It was titled, "Shot Down or Out of Gas?" The author was Barrett Tillman.

[IgorSamarsky]

Никита,
Я здесь и нахожусь, чтобы по крупицам собирать данные о Хартмане. И не только немцы здесь. Если немцы боятся трогать тему отношений пилотов и населения оккупированных территорий, то другим это не тягость. Ведь ясно, что многу русских и украинцев подрабатывали на аэродромах как обслуживающий персонал, вот их взаитмоотношения мне и интересны.

[IgorSamarsky]

How much I remember, in this case at Hartmann fuel has terminated, therefore it and jumped with a parachute. But it has not been brought down

[Jan Gazda]

Kenneth,

Hartmann´s wingman on this occasion was Maj.G. Capito and this dogfight was discussed in Revi Magazine a few years back. The Russian pilot was reported to be a captain and an ace with 25 vics and had more than 20 000 rubles with him. Sadly, it is not quite clear on what date the dogfight took place. The author in Revi Magazine came to the conclusion that it had been in the first half of March 1945 and the only Soviet pilot matching the above mentoined characteristics had been Cpt. S.I. Lazarev from 728.IAP (22+3 victories, KIA 1.3.1945). However, Lazarev is reported to be lost when escorting PE-2 bombers and the place of his loss (near Bunzlau) is too far from the place of the dogfight in question (near Weidengut)..

FWIW

Jan

[Maxim1]

Starshiy leytenant (not captain) Sergey Ivanovich Lazarev of 728 IAP (20+1 victories, HSU, KIFA 1.3.1945) was killed due to collision with Pe-2. Moreover, on 1.3.1945 Hartmann didn't claim any victories, so this is not our case.

[kennethklee]

Originally Posted by Jan Gazda

Kenneth,

Hartmann´s wingman on this occasion was Maj.G. Capito and this dogfight was discussed in Revi Magazine a few years back. The Russian pilot was reported to be a captain and an ace with 25 vics and had more than 20 000 rubles with him. Sadly, it is not quite clear on what date the dogfight took place. The author in Revi Magazine came to the conclusion that it had been in the first half of March 1945 and the only Soviet pilot matching the above mentoined characteristics had been Cpt. S.I. Lazarev from 728.IAP (22+3 victories, KIA 1.3.1945). However, Lazarev is reported to be lost when escorting PE-2 bombers and the place of his loss (near Bunzlau) is too far from the place of the dogfight in question (near Weidengut)..

FWIW

Jan

Jan-

Thanks for the detailed response. I recall now that Capito was a former bomber pilot and I recall Hartmann had only reluctantly accepted him for a combat mission after trying to persuade him that the war would end soon and going on a mission was not worthwhile for Capito. I had forgotten Capito was actually shot down on this mission, reportedly as legend tells it, the only wingman Hartmann lost, although Capito bailed out successfully and returned.

Thanks again.

KL