GQM Verluste und Unfälle.

[Leo Etgen]

Hello Jim and Leo

Many thanks for your help; I was able to locate and download the file successfully with the revised name.

Horrido!

Leo

[RudiS]

Originally Posted by RudiS

As for the pre war losses, so far I have found the following:
Besondere Vorkommnisse (Flugzeugunfälle und Flugzeugabstürze)
17. Dez. 1934 - 15. März 1935 RL 6/112
6. Okt. 1937 - 5. Jan. 1938 RL 6/117
13. Jan. - 18. März 1938 RL 6/119
2. Mai - 15. Juni 1939 RL 6/122
15. Juni - 14. Juli, 05./06. Okt. 1939 RL 6/121

Has anyone found any others?

Nobody? Is the information about the rest of the pre war losses lost?

[Karoband]

Hi Leo,

Try entering it as RL 2-III/759.

Jim

[John Manrho]

Thanks, new file for me too!

[Franek Grabowski]

What is the difference between those files? They cover overlapping period.

RL 2-III_752 Bd. 1 - 31.Aug - 31.Dez.40
RL 2-III_753 Bd. 2 - 1.Jan - 30.Mai.41
RL 2-III_754 Bd. 3 - 3.Jun - 31.Juli.41
RL 2-III_755 Bd. 4 - 1.Aug - 15.Okt.41
RL 2-III_757 Bd. 6 - 16.Jan - 18.Febr.42
RL 2-III_758 Bd. 7 - 19.Febr - 20.Mar.42
RL 2-III_759 Bd. 8 - 21.Marz - 17.Apr.42

RL 2-III_1174 Bd. 3 - 3.Jun - 2.Sept.40
RL 2-III_1175 Bd. 4 - 3.Sept.40 - 2.Jan.41
RL 2-III_1176 Bd. 5 - 3.Jan. - 29.Mai.41
RL 2-III_1177 Bd. 6 - 30.Mai - 2.Aug.41
RL 2-III_1178 Bd. 7 - 3.Aug - 2.Nov.41
RL 2-III_1179 Bd. 8 - 3.Nov.41 - 2.Febr.42
RL 2-III_1180 Bd. 9 - 3.Febr - 2.Mai.42

[RudiS]

Hi Franek,

These are two different copies of the same document. Attached is a scan of the first page of Jan 3rd 1941. One is of RL 2-III/753, the other is from RL 2-III/1176.

[red-star25]

The last one is labeled Vorentwurf (upper right corner)(preliminary draft), which seems to be the first edition of the report. The first one is the final report.

Regards

Dirk

[Franek Grabowski]

Thanks! I have wondered if both sets are from different sources, as distribution list is quite extensive. It is surprising that there are gaps with so many copies made.

[Jim P.]

Originally Posted by RudiS

Hi Franek,

These are two different copies of the same document. Attached is a scan of the first page of Jan 3rd 1941. One is of RL 2-III/753, the other is from RL 2-III/1176.

Just to add to RudiS' comment, while I've yet to see any discrepancies between the two sets of GenQu. losses, the Schulen losses do display some differences. I have two sets of Schulen losses on fiche. (I don't think these have been released yet on Invenio.) One set is missing a few pages that are included with the second set (and vice-versa). There are also different handwritten comments on each set, some readable, some not. My point being that while on the surface they may appear to be identical, the devil is in the details so to speak. As a word of caution, it shouldn't be assumed from reviewing a number of pages from the two Gen.Qu. sets that they are totally identical. And there are a heck of a lot more total pages in the 24 volumes of Gen.Qu. reports than in the Schulen reports.

[Franek Grabowski]

Originally Posted by Andrey Kuznetsov

Junker and Franek, thank you!
I agree that the difference in personal losses is unlikely to be significant if we leave out the last months of the war. But for aircraft losses, primarily on the ground, in some cases distortions can be noticeable.
In any case, all this creates an unpleasant uncertainty.

I guess there might be some write offs missing not including personal losses. I am aware of such case in Tunisia, but I tend to blame the chaos at the end of the campaign. The thing that struck me is the small percentage of Me 109 pilots bailing out during the summer 1941 Channel offensive. Of course this prooves nothing but raises doubts. The question is, if this could be verified somehow.

Originally Posted by Jim P.

Just to add to RudiS' comment, while I've yet to see any discrepancies between the two sets of GenQu. losses, the Schulen losses do display some differences. I have two sets of Schulen losses on fiche. (I don't think these have been released yet on Invenio.) One set is missing a few pages that are included with the second set (and vice-versa). There are also different handwritten comments on each set, some readable, some not. My point being that while on the surface they may appear to be identical, the devil is in the details so to speak. As a word of caution, it shouldn't be assumed from reviewing a number of pages from the two Gen.Qu. sets that they are totally identical. And there are a heck of a lot more total pages in the 24 volumes of Gen.Qu. reports than in the Schulen reports.

Well, I have wondered if those two sets are originating from two different offices. There is a long distribution list, so in theory there is a chance that more than one set survived the war. I understand that those sets are originating from one office.

Franek